Work Besties Who Podcast
Building a bold community of work besties 💼👯♀️ to bond 🤝💞, banter 😂🎉, and bloom 🌸✨
🎙️ Listen to the Work Besties Who Podcast: where workplace friendships get real! From tea spills to relatable laughs, we’re unpacking everything about work life's ups, downs, and unforgettable moments.
✨ Join us for candid chats, relatable stories, and a sprinkle of chaos—because what’s work without a little drama and a lot of fun?
💼😄 Hit play, and let’s dive into the messy magic of workplace connections together!
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Work Besties Who Podcast
Navigating Mid Life: And Deciding On Career Changes with Wendy Alexander
In this episode, Jess and Claude, The Work Besties, sit down with Wendy Alexander to discuss the challenges and opportunities that come with midlife career changes. Wendy shares her inspiring journey of resilience, highlighting the importance of feedback, self-improvement, and community support. They dive into the impact of menopause on careers, the rise of midlife professionals (the "silver tsunami"), and how work besties play a crucial role in navigating transitions. If you're feeling uncertain about your next career move, this episode will leave you with actionable insights and motivation to embrace change with confidence.
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
✔ Your biggest challenges can become stepping stones to success.
✔ Feedback is a powerful tool for growth—embrace it.
✔ Imposter syndrome is common, especially for midlife professionals.
✔ Open conversations about menopause in the workplace matter.
✔ A strong support system, including work besties, is essential.
✔ Midlife professionals are in demand—own your value.
✔ Self-care is the foundation for navigating transitions.
✔ Recognize your transferable skills to open new career paths.
✔ Networking can unlock unexpected opportunities.
✔ It’s never too early (or late!) to explore new career possibilities.
Tune in and get inspired to take the next step in your career journey!
#MidlifeCareer #WorkBesties #CareerChange #WomenAtWork #Podcast
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Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband
What if your biggest challenges were roadblocks but stepping stones to your dream life? Today we're talking about conquering mid-life career changes, breaking through self-doubt and unlocking successes, all with the power of wellness and a work bestie by your side. So let's get into it.
Claude:Hi. I'm Claude and I'm Jess. We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night and work besties for life.
Jess:Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up, laugh through the chaos and thrive together in every industry. Hello everybody, today we're thrilled to welcome Wendy Alexander to our Work Besties who podcast Hi Wendy. Hi. Wendy's story is nothing short of extraordinary. Growing up in apartheid in South Africa, thriving as a single mom while climbing that corporate ladder and now transforming herself as a career life coach, Wendy's helped many professionals, especially those who are going through menopause. So let's talk to her and understand these challenges and opportunities and how we ourselves can land our own perfect job.
Wendy Alexander:Wendy, welcome. Thank you, it's wonderful to meet you both and thanks for having me.
Jess:Why don't you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and your journey?
Wendy Alexander:Okay. So the journey obviously starts back in South Africa, under very challenging circumstances and environment, growing up in a very segregated environment. So that was probably the first place I learned about resilience and finding ways forward through limitations. Because in South Africa there was the classification and there were opportunities only for a certain class of people. And so I was told from a very young age by my father his motto was you're going to have to work twice as hard to get some of the opportunities, and of course I felt that was unfair, but I took it on and began the journey of always finding ways through challenge and obstacles. So that was the foundation of resilience.
Wendy Alexander:But then we migrated to Australia as a family by choice. We'd been trying for years to get out of the country, but the interesting thing about that was when we arrived in Australia it wasn't as easy. As you know. You dream of a life, but then sometimes that life isn't what you think it's going to be, especially navigating all the new rules in Australia. Suddenly I could go wherever I wanted to. There was a lot more opportunities for me, but when you raise and you've grown up for 21 years, it was at the time in a very oppressive environment, you don't actually always know what to do with freedom, and so, emotionally and mentally, that was a challenge for all of us my siblings. I have two brothers and two sisters, so we were five kids navigating that whole new life. The first two years were difficult and then I ended up, you know, studying, graduating, landing the job, and ended up in a situation with a relationship that was surrounded with domestic violence. So that was a difficult time. I was in that relationship for almost 10 years and extricated myself out of the relationship when I was pregnant with my daughter. So I was four months pregnant when the relationship came to an end, but it was the catalyst that led me to the career coaching. So the career coaching and the career transition started many years ago, even before I turned it into the business that it now is, and it was out of desperation. Really, the journey happened because when the relationship ended there was a lot of debt. He walked away, I was left with the debt. I was four months pregnant and I was like I have to find a way out of this, I have a child to raise, and so really I was driven by the desire to make more money.
Wendy Alexander:I approached recruiters, I started to ask people for ways and means and methods and strategies on how I could elevate my career, and I will say there were many people who helped me along the journey. So the first lot of work besties for me were the recruiters and the hiring managers that I approached. They gave me strategies. I started writing and rewriting my resume. I've always written, even as a child growing up in South Africa.
Wendy Alexander:One of the ways that I processed all that difficult time was to write. So I wrote poetry. I wrote little stories. Writing was always a way for me to figure out the things I couldn't figure out, and so I used my love of writing and words to rejig my resume. But I approached the hiring people in the workplace. That was the first place I got support.
Wendy Alexander:My first work besties were the recruiters and hiring people. They taught me strategies on how to interview and you know, sometimes people sort of think who's going to help me. The message I want to say to people is if you don't ask, you're never going to know. So I just asked. I was pretty upfront. I said this is my situation I need to make more money. How do I get a job that's going to make me more money, what are the strategies I need to use? And I find that when you're really authentic with people, there are very few people that aren't going to help you. So many people just stepped up, helped me, showed me what I needed to do. I practiced, practiced.
Wendy Alexander:I started sending out my resume for jobs that were probably not jobs you would normally get, like. I looked at my level of experience and my skills and I'm like man, I'm aiming really high. But I was like you know what? I'm going to try it anyway. You got to try. You got to put yourself out there and have a little bit of courage, a little bit of faith, and I didn't get the very first what I would call next level role that I went for. I did the interview. I didn't get the offer, but I went back to the interviewer and I said can you give me feedback? I know you've got a right to choose whichever candidate you want.
Wendy Alexander:Clearly I wasn't the best one who I would have gotten the job offer. But where can I improve? And they were great. They gave me the feedback. They were like these are the areas where you spoke too long.
Wendy Alexander:We asked you these type of questions and in some cases you were just sort of rabbiting on. You were talking for five minutes on an answer that should have taken you two minutes. I mean, this was detailed feedback. It taught me to start to practice in a way that was very succinct in my answers. I need to not leave out any information, but there has to be a better way to communicate this information.
Wendy Alexander:And one of the recruiters actually said to me you need to always keep in mind that recruiters and hiring people are busy people. So when you show awareness of how busy they are by giving sharp, succinct answers, they're already impressed with you. They they already looking at you as a candidate who's doing more than simply applying for a job. You're aware of the hiring person as well, and that was a strategy that was gold for me.
Wendy Alexander:I literally started to apply that in every interview and then, probably I'd say six or eight months after I started my whole research, I landed the role that I wanted and the role jumped my income significantly by like $45,000, $50,000, which I was not expecting, because my goal was $20,000. So I doubled what my vision was and I was like there's something here. But then the people around me who you know friends, family, colleagues they knew what I'd been through, they knew the rock bottom that I'd hit and they saw this really big catapult within six to eight months. And so they started coming Like how did you do that? That was, in fact, where the business was born, but part time because I'd landed a big role in corporate and I worked corporate for 22 years before I decided to make a change again, and that was a change that was instigated by midlife and menopause.
Jess:Wendy, before we get into the midlife area, I do want to ask a couple questions, because we do have a lot of work, besties who are starting out in their career, and you hit on some areas that I think we assume everybody knows but is worth it to comment on, and that is you did a couple of really impressive things that I don't think everyone likes to do. One look at accepting that you didn't get a job as a gift and asking for feedback because you can always learn.
Jess:I think that is ingenious. And then the second area you hit on is when you were given the feedback about being more succinct with your answers. What was your approach? Knowing, as you said, a lot of these individuals don't have a lot of time and they just want an answer.
Wendy Alexander:Knowing, as you said, a lot of these individuals, don't have a lot of time and they just want an answer. What was your process to prepare? So, for me, one of the things I did was I went to a government website and I asked the website how to interview succinctly, right, and back then the government had this framework and they called it the SAO framework, which was describe the situation, the actions you took and the outcome. And I literally started to copy that framework. But what I did was I timed myself. So obviously, the first few times I tried it out, I'm three and a half. I'm like no, no, no, they said to me I need to get down to two minute answers and so I would time myself. And then, slowly, from practice, you become more and more succinct and all I did was like okay, I just need to describe the situation really quickly Two to three actions I took. What was the outcome?
Wendy Alexander:Because interviewers always want to see what the outcome is of the actions you took in a job and you need to be focused on conveying your contributions and your achievements. A lot of people make the mistake of conveying their long list of tasks and responsibilities, but that doesn't tell someone how you can contribute to them. They already know what a project manager does. They know what a CEO does. They know what a finance manager does. They don't need you to reiterate that right. What they want to know is how did you succeed in that particular role? What were some specific steps you took in some specific situations that led to great outcomes? But they don't always seek positive outcomes because sometimes you don't get a positive outcome. Sometimes you might try something and it doesn't actually give you the result you want. The key there is to then describe the lesson that you learned, the growth that you had through that particular challenge, that maybe you didn't get the outcome you wanted, but you learned lesson one, two or three. What were the top three things you learned through the experience? Because I see hiring people and myself I was in corporate hiring for a lot of major projects in Australia big ones, $100 million projects and for me I always gave people a shot who could tell me the growth that they went through through a challenging experience. If they didn't get the positive outcome, fine, what did you learn? You know, because growth is also a positive. It's another way of having a positive outcome.
Wendy Alexander:Where people make the mistakes, like people starting out, is they zone in on their long tasks and responsibilities which nobody cares about, because the job description already tells them what it is. They want to know how did you achieve? Because the moment they know how you achieve, they already know how you can contribute to their company. Right, if you can achieve this here and here, that means you can bring that same kind of thinking, that same kind of strategy, that same ability to pivot and to think on your feet into their company. That's what people are looking for. It becomes very much about outlining your achievements where you've succeeded before and using a framework situation, action, outcome. It's a very easy framework, easy to remember and you can actually bring your answers back into like two or two and a half minute answers using that framework. But it is practice. It took me a few goes before I was able to get and then once I was able to keep it at that two minute, two and a half minute mark, that is pretty much how I interviewed for the rest of my career.
Claude:Never it never failed me there was something also that you said that I thought was interesting, where you tried some position where you were not per se at that level. There's always this imposter syndrome yeah, and we talk a lot with Jess, I have a huge one. So how did you actually get away from this situation, from this, and having the courage? And because, at the end of the day, I think that the person sees if you're not sure of yourself or not- Absolutely Women, especially midlife women.
Wendy Alexander:I think we really suffer from imposter syndrome in a big way. Part of it is to do with all the changes that's going through our bodies. We end up with brain fog, we have insomnia, and so it dents the confidence quite a bit. I've seen that the fact that I was in corporate running major projects for a lot of years when I hit that midlife journey, I did start to feel doubt myself and I did start to feel like I want to move in a different direction. But who's going to give me the opportunity Now? I had all the history that people did give me opportunities, because that's what happened in my career From that moment when I had transitioned into this new job that paid me, you know, more than I expected, or well, my goal was 20, they gave me 50. I had the evidence that I could do it. But something does happen to us at this stage. I think also society's subliminal messages about women and their usefulness in midlife gets into the brain somehow, and so one of the things that I did when I was getting ready to move out of corporate and change my career, I actually did a process on myself. It is now a process that I actually use with most of my clients and I call it mining your story, and I actually sat down and I went through my entire career, also my personal life, because people don't only achieve in their careers. We achieve in our personal life. I looked at what I had overcome in my life, from growing up in South Africa, from surviving domestic violence, from starting women's groups to support women through domestic violence. I had a meditation group for a lot of years that women used to come to. There is leadership and transferable skills in all of those things that I did. So, even if I didn't have the job specific skills at an advanced level, I had all the soft skills that those roles required, and so I just started to frame my resume, my LinkedIn, my presence, very differently.
Wendy Alexander:Soft skills are never going to go out of fashion, even with emerging technology. You still need people leadership. You still need people to be able to work in teams. You still need people to be able to be strategic in how they work with clients. You still need people to be able to work in teams. You still need people to be able to be strategic in how they work with clients. You still need people to be able to connect to clients so that they can advocate for the client's success.
Wendy Alexander:Those kinds of soft skills are never going out of style, no matter what industry you're in, and what I teach people to do is to zone in on that rather than zone in on the job-specific skills, and also, to be honest, like I've put, helped people put applications together where we've said, though I may not have this particular skill. For example, there's a lady I just helped in Denmark. She wants to go for a role in recruitment with a non-for-profit organization who does work in Africa Now. She speaks numerous languages, she's worked across numerous international companies. She doesn't have the recruitment skills, but she's got everything else that they need. So the application right up the front.
Wendy Alexander:We stated even though I don't have recruitment skills, here's where these five or six major skills of mine is going to benefit your organization. And that's how you start to framework. You zone in on what you do have, not on what you don't have, because chances are you probably only don't have one or two major skills, but you've got everything else that they need. It comes back to framing, not only in your career documents so your resume and your LinkedIn branding but when you interview you need to have your examples ready and if they try and keep taking you down a road of this particular skill, you keep pushing them down the road of these five skills that you do have. You know, don't hide away from the fact that you don't have a particular skill, or one skill or two skills that might be in the job description Zone in on the many that you do have.
Jess:So it isn't that you don't have the skill. It's like reframing how you have the skill, but in a different lens, and this is how you can then still apply it to the role that you are looking at.
Wendy Alexander:Most of us learn on the job. We don't come to a job with every skill. We learn about team collaboration A lot of the jobs. We don't come to a job with every skill we know. We learn about team collaboration. A lot of the jobs we go into uses different systems. So sometimes we've got to learn a different system to do HR work or we might have to do a different system to do project management work. But the fact is we're all learning all the time and I think if you zone in on the fact that you a willing learner, you a person that's interested in lifelong learning, that's a very good phrase. Lifelong learning, it's the buzzword now in the hiring industry and if you throw that at them, they love it.
Jess:Yeah, wendy, you commented before that you started coaching people early on.
Wendy Alexander:Yeah.
Jess:Why, specifically, are you focusing on the midlife cohorts? What is it about the midlife that you feel needs the most area of attention?
Wendy Alexander:Well, I think when people get to that midlife and this is men and women what I've seen with the men that I coach is men make decisions faster. So if they get to a stage where they're sick of the career, they hate the job, they are really onto it right. They move very, very quickly, they make a decision, they engage a coach and they go Midlife. Women we tend to start doubting ourselves. The imposter syndrome kicks in. But how can I do it? How do I make the change? And I think, because I was challenged myself. I have that soft spot for women. So it's where I've been channeling my work in the last year or two trying to help women identify the skills, the talents that they have to offer, but also help move them into a career that's a lot less stressful, because midlife and menopause is stressful. If you most of us go through it with some symptoms, If it's not mood swings, if it's not insomnia, brain fog, all of those things right, Anxiety, All of us.
Wendy Alexander:I had all the symptoms being embarrassed because I'd be in a meeting and at the time I was the only female on some of the leadership teams, and suddenly my blouse is sticking to my body and the sweat is running down me and I had hot flashes with nausea.
Wendy Alexander:So I'd be like, oh my God, I'm going to throw up and you just dash off and you don't even know how to explain to them. Because when you come back into the room, you're so embarrassed you don't know how to tell them that it's a sign or symptom of menopause. You're so embarrassed you don't know how to tell them that it's a sign or symptom of menopause. But that's one of the conversations that I want to change. Women should be able to say you know what? This is a symptom and I need to be excused right now, without getting men shift awkwardly or whoever's on the leadership team. We haven't spoken enough about it. We need our besties to be men that are also championing our causes in the workplace, but we're the first champions. We're the ones that shouldn't be embarrassed about it. The conversation needs to be a lot more open.
Jess:I think your work besties can really help make that career change less overwhelming, because it's somebody with that support system. Question for that one would be then as we all go through these, sometimes we do feel like we're alone in it. What would be your advice for them if they are struggling with their career or looking for that change?
Wendy Alexander:Well, hr departments are probably the first place to start, because a lot of them have employee assistant programs and, yes, a lot of that might be focused on something else, but who's going to open up the conversation if not you, right? And also, when you go and speak to an HR representative, there's a lot of confidentiality around those conversations.
Wendy Alexander:So, that's probably one of the first places you could start is to go and have a conversation, see if there's something in place at the organization, and if there isn't, you might have to be brave enough to take it on and to instigate it and to come with some recommendations, you know. Here's how I think we can support midlife women in the workplace. What I found as well and it's interesting this was an interesting one for me because I actually found the men a lot easier to talk about Once I started to have the conversations. I got a lot of support from men. That's interesting.
Wendy Alexander:I think it may have had something to do with the fact that when I started to open up about the conversation and bring it up in the workplace, they had the understanding they have wives, they have partners and suddenly they were like aha, is this what this is all about? I'm living with this at home.
Jess:I don't know what it is they're like. No, it's all making sense yeah.
Wendy Alexander:For them it was like wow, tell me more was kind of the response I got Interesting. Now I know that that hasn't happened in enough workplaces. I believe that we can always get better. It goes back to authenticity, to what I said at the start of the conversation when I was struggling as a single mom and I just went and asked for help. I didn't try and hide the fact that I was going through a very difficult time, that I didn't know what I was doing, that I needed to make more money. I wasn't trying to posture. I wasn't trying to put a brave face on or whitewash the situation. It was no, this is what it is and I need help.
Wendy Alexander:And I found very similar conversations with when you're authentic people unless they're really awful people and mean-spirited people, people step up to help you. But what people don't like is when you're pretending People can sense and feel that that's when people become reserved and they won't step up and help or they'll be a little bit suspicious. But if you're authentic and you share, I certainly found. Once I started speaking to the executive leaders I said look, we need support for women. This is what I'm going through. This is why I'm running out of the meetings all the time because I feel awful, I feel like I'm about to throw up, I don't want to embarrass myself, whatever. Whatever I said not every woman gets nausea with hot flashes, but some women do, I said. But we need to create support where women can feel like they can say you know what, I'm having a moment, or even be humorous about it. I'm having a meno moment.
Claude:I love it. The thing is that I feel that nowadays it's not as taboo as it used to be. Like we saw lately, a lot of celebrities came out and actually say I'm going through that, I am really uncomfortable, it's horrible. So it's really teaching also the younger generation well, you know, that's what's going to happen and also to finally see the people that are going through that. Okay, that's normal, it's not me that is going crazy, because you believe sometimes that there's something wrong with you. They all say you know, you become another personality or whatever with all those changes.
Wendy Alexander:So what I really appreciate is that more and more we talk about it and become you know, yes, the conversation is definitely risen around, like I've done lots of talks on a lot of different podcasts and I can definitely see that the conversation is opening up a lot more. My menopause journey probably the end of the tail end of it was two or three years ago, but I had seven years. I started very early. I started at 45, which that was another thing that slammed me. I wasn't ready for it, I wasn't prepared mentally, and so I think that's part of why I really struggled through it. But it pushed me towards different things in my life, which is now really supporting the midlife woman, because I know that that support has been slim and I can see it starting to gain traction, but it's nowhere near where it needs to be.
Jess:You know, there's still so it sounds like more people are talking about it, there's more support, but they don't know what to do. Like there is no blueprint or outside of them being advocates of listening to you, they're not necessarily doing anything yet that's right.
Claude:Going back to those symptoms that are not fun and you know you helping with career coaching and everything how do you make those women really understand OK, it's OK to pivot. How can you make them OK to change despite all those changes? You know what I mean. Like, because you cannot get to alleviate the symptoms. So how do you make them more comfortable?
Wendy Alexander:Well, the Minding your Story is all about going to look at the patterns, the skills, the things that you automatically and naturally good at. Because if you're going to move into a career that, at this stage of life, you want to move into one that's as stress-free as possible, that means you need to move into something that's going to make you happy, that's going to make you want to get out of bed on a Monday morning and go to that job. If you're going to a job that you hate and you're going through menopause and all the awful symptoms that come with it, all that's going to do is compound your stress, and when we're stressful we don't make wise and smart decisions. I've never seen anybody make a smart or wise decision when they're super anxious or super stressed. The first part of the work that I do with women is we need to dig into, we need to go mine your story for your gold nuggets. What are the gold nuggets of you know Jess's story or Claude's story? Where has there been patterns in your life where things have come easy to you, where you're naturally good at it?
Wendy Alexander:In my situation, I realized I had the ability to write Like I've been writing since I was six years old.
Wendy Alexander:So I recognized that in my pattern was this ability with words.
Wendy Alexander:I was a wordsmith and I'm like how can I use this wordsmith or this love of words?
Wendy Alexander:And the other pattern that kept showing up was I was always helping people, from the time I was a teenager growing up in South Africa, working at homeless shelters and things like that. And I was like now, how do I combine this, how do I combine these two things that I know I would get up out of bed to do every single day and be joyous about it? And that's how I actually established I was like well, writing as a career coach, I was doing it very part time. I'm like I can turn this into a full time business. And then the other thing I started to do was copywriting for small businesses, because a lot of small businesses they don't know how to brand themselves and I'm like they need words. I can do words, I like words, and that is, in fact, how I perverted and it's how I help a lot of women identify what they can contribute in the least stressful way possible, because that's the most important thing around midlife and menopause for women we need to reduce our stress.
Jess:So when you, if somebody comes to you and they say help me, mind my story, you're not necessarily saying to them you need to shift a career. You're actually just helping them understand what they like and don't like. Because you made the leap right, you they like and don't like because, because you made the leap right, you said okay I like writing.
Jess:I like helping people. You've had that knowledge of connecting the data to an opportunity, of what are some skill sets and jobs out there that I can do. How do these other people figure that out? Is it you coming to them or you're just saying here's those skills that you're strong in and letting them figure?
Wendy Alexander:it out. I help them identify the skills that they're strong in. Then we look at can we use those skills in the current company? Because if you don't have to move companies and you just end up sort of going into another business unit, well that's better, that's an easy transition, right. But if you find that the skills that we've now identified are your strongest and there isn't an opportunity in your company, so you now need to shift into a new company. I never encourage people to just leave a job because then you're going to put yourself under financial strain.
Jess:And you're actually adding more stress, potentially because you have to reinvent yourself.
Wendy Alexander:Absolutely.
Jess:And if it's not something you really love, why bother?
Wendy Alexander:Why bother? So the other way to gain traction in something is to go. Okay, I've identified this set of skills. How can I do it on a volunteer basis, for maybe an hour, two hours a week, potentially at a company? I used to actually volunteer with collecting food for the homeless here in Australia and I met some amazing CEO type people doing the same thing. One or two of them gave me an opportunity. Right, we packing food together on a Saturday, we start talking and next thing you know they're going. I could do with someone like you in my company. So you make connections through volunteering. Right, there's so many ways you can segue into an opportunity, and that's one of the things I like helping people do is shift the mindset about this is the only path. No, it isn't the only way for you. There are so many ways. The other way is we've identified where your talents are. Now let's go identify the kind of companies you might want to work with. Okay, so this is a longer game, but you play the game right. It's like okay, so these are the top 10 companies that you think you might want to go work for.
Wendy Alexander:Now we go to linkedin. Who are the decision makers in that company. Look at the hr managers, look at the ceos, look at the middle management. Start, start to friend those people, start to follow them, start to like their posts, comment on their posts, because now you're going to start networking and build a relationship. Now maybe that's a six-month game or even a 12-month game, but by the time you've finished and build those connections, you are now in front of that person Because I know with me when people connect to me.
Wendy Alexander:You are now in front of that person Because I know with me. When people connect to me, if they've been following my posts and they've been commenting on it, I know who they are. The moment they reach out to me and say can you help me? I know who they are because I've seen them comment and like on my posts. So I am likely to accept that connection. And then when they ask for help or tips or strategies, I'm happy to send them quick tips and strategies when they come ready to work with me. We already have some kind of relationship going. People don't respond to people who just reach out and go can you help me? But you've actually given nothing to that person, right?
Jess:You have no connection. They're like just can you give me a job?
Wendy Alexander:You're like no, it's like no. I've had people say to me can you pass my resume around? Well, actually no, because I don't know you and I don't know what you'd like as a person. I have a reputation in Australia. I have a lot of hiring people that I work with. I'm only going to open my network to you if I get to know you a little bit, because I'm not going to tank my reputation, right?
Wendy Alexander:No, I'm not going to do that, but I will help someone who is also willing to give, and even if that giving is commenting on my post, sharing, asking me questions and I've now sent you emails back and forth, or we've sent messages and I've given you tips on how to interview and the other thing that here's a tip that has always worked and I'll say this to people when you go for interviews, even if you don't get the job. This is something that worked really well for me and it still works really well for me, even in my new business is send thank you notes to people. Job, thank people for the opportunity, because I can tell you one thing you're going to be front of their mind, you're going to be staying in their mind and when the next opportunity comes. You're the person they're going to reach out to, because they remembered you from simple things like that.
Claude:Yeah, it's so funny because, you know, with Jess, at some point when we were working together, we were interviewing the same candidate and a lot of them we were like, did you receive a thank you note?
Wendy Alexander:I didn't, you know, and we were actually shocked that people would not send it it's a simple thing, but it is a very effective strategy for putting yourself front of mind for a hiring person. I always send them and I encourage every person I work with. I in fact, when someone has had an interview my clients and they go oh, I had an interview, I go. Did you send the thank you note? They go oops, I go send it now. Like seriously, because people know people, even if this recruiter doesn't have the right job for you, they're working with three or four other recruiters who might have the right job for you. They're working with three or four other recruiters who might have the right job for you and they're going to go. This person was so great to work with, they had great manners, they sent me a thank you note. They're going to pass your resume on to that other recruiter. Opportunities are everywhere and all it takes is just a little bit of basic manners.
Jess:Not just the recruiting or HR but to the person you're interviewing with too, because in some of the examples Klaan and I are talking, oh, that individual would have been perfect for this other department not ours and if they wrote a thank you we could have said like hey, we actually know of another job. Did you think about applying for that one? And then you instantly have like a connection in the company. So you just that's your point.
Wendy Alexander:You never know, just putting it out there can potentially really lead to a bigger, bigger, broader opportunity yeah, back to the theme of your podcast, it you need to be building your work besties everywhere, everywhere. Sometimes you have closer work besties than others, but always be building them. Building them everywhere, because you don't know where your opportunity is going to come from. I had people who reported to me I was their manager. They left, they you know they left and went for another job and then two years later they contacted me and go, there's a managerial. And then two years later they contacted me and go there's a managerial, there's a PM manager role here and they would put my resume forward. So some of my opportunities came from people that I once looked after, that once reported to me. Right, and so treat people well, create bestie relationships all over the place, because you don't know who's going to create the next one.
Jess:Yeah, so I was going to ask you how important is that community? But you've already hit that. Yeah, it would be strongly that your community is very important, so why don't I ask this instead? Do you have any go-to tips to help continue to build that now?
Wendy Alexander:So one of the things that I don't see a lot of people doing but when they do it it is pure gold is okay, you didn't maybe get the job offer that you wanted, but if you know someone is really good for a job, you know they've got the kind of skills that potentially you refer that onto that recruiter. I'm telling you you will be employed always, because the moment you give to people like that, you go. You know what? I know I didn't get that job, that job, but you know, I know you were looking for this, this and this, and here's, here's someone who I know would probably be good, and you refer that person onto that recruiter or onto that hiring manager. They will never forget you, they will never forget you and they will make it their business to look out for you. It's just the way the cycle works. And also the person that you end up referring on like I've referred people on to roles they've never forgotten what I've done for them. So when opportunities come, you know they send it.
Wendy Alexander:When I was in corporate, they would send me. I never, never, had to job hunt again. Everything happened through the network. People just kept referring me on for various reasons. Sometimes it was simply because I was a good manager to my staff and I looked after them and I helped grow their career and I helped write their resumes. I never held people to me. For me it's like if you're ready to grow, then my job as a manager is that I've got to help you grow. So if I help you write a resume so you can go to another company and get what you want, people don't forget that. And similarly, when you refer good people onto them, the community just has to keep growing. You keep giving, you keep giving, you keep being a work bestie to as many people as you can be, and you will never have to hunt for a job.
Claude:It's going back again and supporting each other for a job. It's going back again and supporting each other, right, supporting this community, absolutely.
Jess:People, you don't always be just about yourself. Exactly Like I said, I think even to your point supporting others and finding solutions or ideas for others it winds up supporting you longer term too. It's an interesting thing that continues to. It's just like the gift that keeps on giving. So, wendy, who would be an ideal candidate for you? Like what, what, who? Who should be thinking to reach out to you?
Wendy Alexander:I work with all kinds of people, but I've pivoted the business to mostly the midlife woman. But that doesn't mean I don't work with midlife men because, as I said, a lot of my clients are senior men, senior executives. They're easy to work with because they tend to make very fast decisions. Men I don't know what it is in the brain, they just go I need to change and they go boom. Women need to think through it, but that's the kind of person I like to work with, because I was there too. I was lacking in confidence and feeling a little bit battered by all the changes going on in my body, and so I can speak to women from that place. I can share my journey and how difficult it was and that, despite the fact that it was that difficult, you can make the change.
Claude:Just thinking about it, making the, you know, making the changes. But is it for to go to another company? Because a lot of time we hear okay, I'm 47, I'm 50, I will never find a job, right, I am too old, I'm so close to retirement. So you see that you actually company, do hire midlife, midlife women and you do hire midlife women.
Wendy Alexander:There's a new buzz phrase called the silver tsunami and it's going on in the world. I work with people all across the world. Companies have recognized especially after the pandemic, they have recognized that people are struggling with confidence. People are struggling with even knowing how to communicate with one another. What they've seen is that the silver-haired people, us okay, so mine's died the midlife people.
Wendy Alexander:We come with the experience, we come with the battle wounds, the scars of working through everyday life, challenge, work, life, all of that. And so companies are pivoting and they're looking more for the midlife person, the one that's got some experience but it's also still young enough to work with the young ones and work with the older level of leadership. So we are actually the silver tsunami is on the rise. We are in demand, but we need to have the confidence to present ourselves. So that's what I'm seeing. Certainly, I'm seeing the silver tsunami and if you look it up, it is the rise in hiring for that midlife person. So this is our time and it probably will be our time for the next 10 years. I'd say so if you're going to jump on it, now's the time.
Jess:You brought it up all the way in the beginning of the podcast about including your soft skills. It is one thing I believe we don't see very often in resumes. I agree with you, though, because a lot of those soft skills especially not just managing your whole household, but a lot of us are running programs for our kids, their PTA, whatever. And then to your point, like you're probably doing some stuff on the side too, whether you're hosting a book club or, you know, a weekly social with your neighborhood A lot of these things take leadership skills that we don't give ourselves the credit for, and we should be yeah.
Wendy Alexander:You're a leader, you're organizing, yeah, just about framing it up and that's. I suppose some people can write they love words, like I do, and as long as you know how to frame it up, you're going to be able to get opportunities. But if you don't, then find someone who can help you.
Claude:And it's really recognizing what we have and owning them and being proud of it. We always say, woman, or, for example, something you know, oh, I love your dress or whatever, oh, I got it on set right. We always downplay, downplay. So it is important for us to realize we have to stop that and really own what we have, because it's fantastic. We have a lot of great soft skill.
Wendy Alexander:A simple thank you is a great answer to many compliments. I think we're not trained to do that Society. I remember being taught as a young girl you have to be demure and you don't boast or brag. And it's not about boasting or bragging, it's just about simply saying if someone pays you a compliment, thank you very much. The more you do that, the more you actually hear more compliments and the more it gets into the psyche and you become more and more comfortable owning your unique skills and hiring people hire confidence that's the fundamental thing that they do. So if you're confident and you own your skills, people are going to go. I need that person on my team Because that is the kind of person that instills confidence in other people. But if you're always downplaying your skills, then that doesn't instill confidence in someone.
Claude:Yeah. And nobody is going to want to hire you.
Jess:So, wendy, I have one last question for you. What is that? One piece of advice you'd give somebody who isn't quite ready to make the change, or maybe unsure of wanting to make a change?
Wendy Alexander:So I would say to people explore. Start to dig into yourself early. Do the foundational pieces before you're even ready to make a change right. Start to identify what is it that I really love? What is it that I really want to do? Where can I go? Do it.
Wendy Alexander:Okay, I may not be ready to make that change in this year, I may only be ready in 18 months or in 12 months, but start to explore. Explore so that you can then have some idea of the direction, because a person without direction or without a plan is literally not going to hit any kind of goal right. You're spinning around and so, if you have the time, if you're the fortunate person who's in a job and you go, you know what? I'm not ready to make the change for another year or 18 months.
Wendy Alexander:Start exploring now, so that by the time you're ready to make the change, all the foundational work has been done already, because you don't want to get to a point where you're so stressed out, you're so anxious, you're hating your job so much. Now you're trying to make the change and you've now got to go. Do all the foundational work first, because that's time wasting, that's going to put you under more stress. So if you have even the slightest thought in your mind I think I want to change my career or I think I want to go work for a different company, but maybe I want to do that in 12 months time or 18 months, Get moving on the foundational pieces now.
Claude:Thank you so much, Wendy. Any parting words?
Wendy Alexander:One thing I will say to women, midlife women self-care is super important. Make sure that that's happening. Alongside any kind of change. Self-care is my number one priority, because if this body and this mind isn't working, then nothing works, not for a long period of time, so true.
Claude:Well, thank you so much, Wendy, for your incredible insight. We love it Really. This episode was a masterclass in transforming midlife challenges into opportunities. And again, some great words, mind your story and important to have those lifelong you know learning. It's never too late, so make sure that you have a work bestie to help you on this journey. And thank you so much and share to all the work besties out there and keep lifting each other.
Jess:Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break room, rescuing each other from endless meetings or just sending that perfectly timed meme. Having a work bestie is like having your own personal hype squad.
Claude:So keep lifting each other, laughing through the chaos and, of course, thriving. Until next time, stay positive, stay productive and don't forget to keep supporting each other. Work besties.
