Work Besties Who Podcast
Building a bold community of work besties 💼👯♀️ to bond 🤝💞, banter 😂🎉, and bloom 🌸✨
🎙️ Listen to the Work Besties Who Podcast: where workplace friendships get real! From tea spills to relatable laughs, we’re unpacking everything about work life's ups, downs, and unforgettable moments.
✨ Join us for candid chats, relatable stories, and a sprinkle of chaos—because what’s work without a little drama and a lot of fun?
💼😄 Hit play, and let’s dive into the messy magic of workplace connections together!
Work Besties:-)
Work Besties Who Podcast
Unpacking Burnout: Journey to Healing with Jen and Irina of MotivAction Academy
In this episode, we’re joined by Jen Hardy and Irina Alexander of MotivAction and co-hosts of the Life by Choice podcast to talk about one of the most overlooked truths in burnout: It’s not just internal — it’s relational.
Jen and Irina open up about their personal experiences with burnout, compassion fatigue, and the emotional toll of always saying “yes.” They share their transformative journey toward healing, highlight the importance of emotional literacy, and offer practical tools like their CARES framework to support resilience and self-awareness.
You’ll walk away with:
- A new lens on burnout (it shows up in how we communicate)
- Tools to strengthen your emotional vocabulary
- Strategies to pause before saying yes
- The courage to have more vulnerable, honest conversations at work and beyond
Takeaways:
- Burnout can manifest in many ways, including silence or over-commitment
- Communication style shifts under pressure
- Emotional literacy helps us process burnout, not just survive it
- The CARES model provides actionable healing tools
- Healing happens in connection — not isolation
🎙️ Sound Bites:
- "I had compassion fatigue."
- "Guilt and shame live in silence."
🔗 Resources:
- Learn more about MotivAction https://motivaction.academy/
- Listen to the Life by Choice Podcast https://www.youtube.com/@Life-By-Choice
🎧 Subscribe, share, and send this to a work bestie who might need a moment of real talk.
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Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband
Burnout doesn't happen in a vacuum. It happens in connections. Today we have Jen Hardy and Irina Alexander, who are going to help us unpack why healing isn't just internal, it's relational. As you listen, ask yourself who do you need in your corner when it all feels like way too much. Stay tuned to the very end as we ask these two powerhouses the one thing to do today that will lift yourself out of that burnout, together with your work bestie.
Claude:Hi, I'm Claude and I'm Jess. We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night and work besties for life.
Jess:Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up, laugh through the chaos and thrive together in every industry. Work besties, welcome. We're so excited to have you, thank you ladies, Thank you. I thought we'd kick off first, Jen, asking you a question around what was your personal powerful burnout story?
Jen Hardy:That would be the days that I was sleeping in my car for two to three hours in the middle of my day.
Jess:I feel like there's a backstory there.
Jen Hardy:There is right. I was a teacher and a coach for 12 years. Halfway through that career, during a run for a state title, a second state title I had been driving to the church around the corner to sleep in my car for anywhere from two to three hours, depending on how much of a planning period lunch, study hall that I had all grouped together at once just to make it for the day and survive through each day and show up how I needed to show up. After that happened over and over and over again, in the middle of playoffs, it was like this is not normal. This can't just be part of the job, right, because there's often people who are like, oh, you're just in playoff season, you're just in season, right, I hear that all the time in different professions. Oh, this is not normal, this is not okay.
Jen Hardy:I finally had to take a look at what's really going on here and I was just overdoing it. I was a yes syndrome girl, as I like to say it. I was a yes syndrome girl, as I like to say it. I was saying yes to all the things very much defined by productivity how much you do is is your worth, and those are some of the things that we started to uncover as as we moved through this healing journey and, and this burnout, having to recuperate and sleep, is it because it was really long hours of work but and during the night, not being able to sleep because you cannot shut off your, your?
Jen Hardy:Yes, long hours being a teacher and a coach. Obviously there were extended hours before school and after school, sometimes till midnight with driving the bus. But for me it was also compassion fatigue. Working with students, working with athletes whose parents aren't around or who aren't showing up the way they need them to. You're expected to be everything they need in that moment when you care right and really show up for these kids in the way that they need. So it wasn't so much for me that I couldn't shut my brain off or couldn't go to sleep. In fact I'd get home and I'd sleep so hard like it was hard to get up in the morning. But I know for a fact that I had compassion fatigue. I was overwhelmed with how much of me needed to be there for these kids and I didn't have the tools and the skills to navigate the energy that was being taken to do that.
Jess:And Irina, I hear you have also a powerful burnout story as well. That happened separately in a different, distinct way. What was your wake up call?
Irina Alexander:My wake up call was as I was driving on highway and I called my mom and I said, mom, I'm coming home. And she was like what do you mean? Who died? Because by that time I haven't been home in nine years. And so that was my big moment. I took my kids and I went back home to my homeland, russia, and spent there a few weeks, and after I came back, I said, okay, I don't want to do it anymore. It was great, it was a great journey, it was a great business, but I am done and I don't want to do what I've been doing.
Jess:Okay, so you guys didn't go through burnout together, but it sounds like you both got to a breaking point and found each other on the other side. Did the connection between you two start and get to this point?
Jen Hardy:We both ended up finding NLP Neuro Linguistic Programming as a training modality that we both got involved in back in 2019, 2020 as a personal development journey, and neither one of us went because we wanted to be coaches or trainers or do anything. We went because we were just curious. I was a little bit ahead of Irina in terms of jumping in. I was at her practitioner as a coach and the first time I met her I couldn't stand her. I just thought she was such a stuck-up bitch and I couldn't. She would sit in the back, like the thing I always joke about. That I remember the most as a coach at the training when we were supposed to usher everybody back to their seats when it's time to get back into the lessons, and that's when arena would get up and go to the back of the room and open a bag of chips and start eating the chips in the back of the room, because she was a huge what we call mismatcher back then, so she'd love to do the opposite of what everybody else was doing.
Jen Hardy:Somebody would always be like someone go tell her to sit down and we'd all be like, yeah, no, I don't talk to her, oh my gosh so along that line of her being the mismatcher, I think the trainers knew that, and so they treated her extra special in the fact that she got to skip masters and come straight to trainers training, which is where we actually met. We actually got put in the same group. We ended up partnered together in a very emotionally intense exercise that we jokingly but also seriously say that we got anchored to each other in a very emotionally bonding way and ever since then we've been super close and been very supportive of each other and it just started to grow from that place. We came out of there both going to do different things, but always going and supporting the other one at their training in whatever way we could, or their events, and then we started hey, let's do an event together.
Jen Hardy:This has been an interesting journey to do alone. Let's try some together. We did more and more and more together and then we got to. She got to a point where she asked me do you want to just do this together? And uh, that was what august 2023 that we officially joined forces and said let's do this. To say it hasn't been a journey to figure out how to be with each other as two very like strong type, strong women, uh, would be alike. The skills and the tools that we have have allowed us to really navigate and create a really intimate and beautiful friendship.
Jess:That's amazing. And, irina, let's hear your side of the story. What was your first impression of Jen?
Irina Alexander:I don't even remember her, I don't know which one is worse.
Irina Alexander:It was the bitch as Jen described. 100% true, but I don't think we even talked during that training. It was a seven-day-long training. Can you believe seven day long? I didn't think we communicated or anything, but once we went through the trainers and anchored to each other, that was a beautiful journey being able to trust another woman, because we all came from a background of some betrayal and some other issues and stories in the past. So it's been very fascinating to see us grow and heal each other. Can you remind me what kind of training was it again? Nlp, neuro Linguistic Programming.
Jen Hardy:It's the base of what we host and what we do now as well.
Jess:Based off of this, it sounds like you guys decided to do this, this. It sounds like you guys decided to do this, but it sounds in addition to burnout, there may have been some boundaries that you weren't necessarily creating any self-leadership of who you are in and of itself. Now that you've taken this class, started teaching, what do you feel are some of those early signs others can see in themselves?
Jen Hardy:Some of the early signs that I don't think people notice is over-productivity. I call it yes syndrome. I say that jokingly, but we do live in a world where we're rewarded for productivity, we're rewarded for doing, doing, doing, doing right we wear like a badge of honor until we're so far run into the ground that we don't even recognize when we're saying yes anymore. I mean, we had a woman in one of our trainings that we still laugh, that she was such a people pleaser and such a say yes, yes, yes, yes. Without thinking we gave her a task that you have to pause for five seconds before you say yes to something. And then, like two minutes later, one of the girls that was there in the training was like hey, can I borrow your phone? And she was like yep, here with no thought, literally two minutes after we made the task and the whole room just erupted cracking up and it took her a minute to even catch it and she was like it was so instinctual to just always say yes versus pausing to notice.
Jen Hardy:Do I want to do this? Should I do this? Can I do this? Do I have the energy and capacity, the knowledge, all the elements that we don't even pause long enough for right. We just go, go, go, go, go, go go. So maybe that's a sign is, if you notice, I'm going so fast, so quick, that I don't even remember what I've said yes to what I'm doing, what I've done, it's just, it just becomes a blur.
Claude:How do you take that mindset away? Because for a lot of people saying yes, I think you're a little bit like that too and I am totally I'm a yes person. How do you say no at this point? Because it's hard right, Because then you're going to have this fear of being fired or disappointing, because that is part of being a people pleaser. You know you don't want to disappoint the other person, because it's a badge of honor also to be the good one. How do you break?
Irina Alexander:that. How is that a problem? How is that a problem to be seen as a person who says no? And what is the purpose of you saying yes? All the time you have to ask yourself and be honest with yourself For what purpose are you doing that? And what would happen if you say no? Somebody gets disappointed. So what? How is that a problem to you? That's true.
Claude:It's not your problem if they are disappointed.
Irina Alexander:Yeah, I mean, we choose to make it our problem or choose to take it on ourselves. But is it really our problem? Or you just kind of have a friend like me who, when Jen says yes, you just like elbow her and saying do you really want to do that?
Jess:it also gives you the luxury of a pause to think does this add value not only to you, but the role or what you're doing?
Jess:you have the ability to say why right because there is a lot of times and I know what you said I'm a yes person, but I don't feel like I have been the last couple years in this role, because I get inundated by so many things that I do say what, what is that? For Nine times out of 10, they're like none of your business and I'm like well then, I don't need to do it, you can do it. I do believe to your point. In addition, it's not that it's bad to say no or to pause. In my mind, it helps provide the clarity that's even needed as to why you would be asked to do it yeah, it's definitely the pause, right.
Jen Hardy:You asked how do you do it? How do you do it when you're always wanting to be the one who looks good or is valued, or whatever the words are? How you do it is you start pausing. You have to pause long enough to notice what am I thinking, what am I feeling, what's happening behind the scenes and why I'm wanting to say yes. So that's, the first step is pause.
Irina Alexander:Stop being on autopilot, because a lot of people are on autopilot that automatic reflex of yes or saying yes or whatever it is. So break that pattern.
Jen Hardy:It doesn't even mean you're going to say that you're not going to say yes the first time. That's not even what we're saying. We're just saying just start practicing, pausing and noticing what happens.
Jess:That's true. You don't have to say yes to everything. It's the pause, because if people really want it, they'll come back and or they'll find a way to do it themselves.
Claude:And it doesn't mean that taking a pause means that you're going to say no, it's just reflecting and not being on autopilot which, when you're even in a burnout space, you're on autopilot.
Jess:You talked about how the yes person is tied to your self-worth. How do you entangle that from the achievement aspect? What are kind of processes or ways that you can work on that? What are some ideas that our work besties can think about?
Jen Hardy:It all boils down to? What are you focusing on right? Where is that coming from? Are you choosing to achieve this because this is part of who you want to be in the world and how you desire to be seen, how you desire to show up, but also, more importantly, how you want to be in the world and how you desire to be seen, how you desire to show up, but also, more importantly, how you want to feel right. Or are you doing it to be valued? Are you doing it to be accepted? Are you doing it to be seen as a leader and seen as an expert, even when you aren't, or are you doing it just to be known? We have to take a minute to notice. What do I believe about these things, and where and why I'm doing them, how I chose to do them.
Jen Hardy:My journey as a teacher and a coach is actually an example, because I didn't even go to school to be a teacher and a coach. I actually went to go be a strength coach specifically. I did not want to be a teacher. Being a teacher scared the hell out of me and life happened the way life happened and I became a teacher and it kind of felt like I had to. I'm the type of person who's like you put something in front of me, I'm going to figure it out, I'm going to achieve it. So I ended up being good at it. That's what I realized when I got to a point in my self-development journey was I'm doing what I wound up doing, but do I want to do this? When did I decide, like that, this is what I wanted to do, or that this was my definition of success? And it? It never was. It was fun and I was good at it and I had success. But like what do I want to?
Claude:do. Did you enjoy it Right?
Jen Hardy:That's the funny part I didn't get the fulfillment and the success. I didn't feel it the way I thought I would feel it. I mean, we won a state championship and within two days I was already freaking out about how do I do it again and what the expectations are going to be, and the weight of it. I didn't even really enjoy it. It was just yay, it was amazing for 24 hours, 48 hours, and then it was like, oh shit, I'm going to do it again. I realized I didn't actually choose that path for myself. I mean, I did in the reality of realities, right, but I fell into it. I ended up being good at it. I'm doing what I wound up doing. What else can I do? So I leave? I'm like, screw it, I'm leaving.
Jess:I'm going to to find out that I'm a teacher and a coach, just not in public education, but it sounds like in this version of it you found a partner, so that has helped you. Maybe that's some of your learning. What are other things that, as you guys, became a partner in a business, especially as you mentioned early on as two very strong individuals? What did you learn about that and helping you to redefine your success and leadership?
Irina Alexander:we joke that we are as close as we can be except intimacy. So we are like very, very close and it's a relationship, and any relationship it it takes work. So, learning each other, learning how to communicate, learning each other's triggers, navigating each other's situations right when we are in life and what is happening. I'm very individualistic, ego-driven person, or at least used to be, and what it's like to have a partner and communicating with a partner, I mean we joke she's like. You just need to at least inform me, tell me what's happening. It's one thing when you run a company by yourself, it's a very different dynamic when there is more than just you. In a family dynamic, it's one thing. But in a family dynamic, it's one thing. But in a business, it's also extremely important and at the same time, not to over communicate, because if Jen starts over communicating with me, she knows that I roll my eyes and I don't listen because I don't like to be over communicated. Is it really?
Claude:what are we doing today? I'm like, can you put? She's like sissy me.
Jess:What are we doing today? I'm like I've emailed it to you four times.
Claude:And I'm like, please stop sissing me, it's overwhelmed me.
Irina Alexander:I mean, jen would really would like put a bullet. I was like, hey, can I get a bullet points, because I will not read all of that. Or like the other day she recorded five messages and then she deleted them on and recorded one because she was like you don't need all of that. I was like, thank you. So learning each other's communication style and respecting it and don't take it personal Meeting each other where we are, it's been absolutely beautiful and we learn so much from each other, with each other, that we are teaching other people as well much from each other, with each other, that we are teaching other people as well.
Jess:I love that you brought up the communication, because I feel like communication in general is something all relationships, work besties, partners and business um, you know, personal relationships, all that you have to work on but it becomes a little different when it's under pressure too right. So communication can be difficult on a normal day, but then you've now got this pressure of work deadlines or having to say yes or no to people all the time. So I'm curious from both of your perspectives, what are some ways that, when it's a pressured situation, our work besties can learn how to take that pause, or what are things they can think about to help better their communication?
Jen Hardy:I'm going to share the conversational preframes because I think they can change the game and they're super easy. Conversational preframes are actually our participants, our students, our clients. That's one of their favorite things, but it's basically either as the person who's speaking or as the person who's going to be listening. I'm going to pre-frame the conversation, especially when it's got some intensity to it, to know how to best listen or how to best serve, or how I need to be listened to. Right, because so often communication goes astray or goes wrong because we're assuming what the person needs. Right, we're listening from our filters and what we need, to feel safe and comfortable to navigate this difficult conversation, or how to get away from it, for that matter. Right, instead of how do I actually be in this space with this person and give them what they need, while I also get what I need, whether I'm the speaker or the listener? And so you prefront, you ask them do you just need to vent? Do you need perspective? Right, do you need me to be on your side? Perspective, vent, be on your side or help you fix it, because most people just want to vent, some people need help fixing it, some people need perspective and some people just want you to be their cheerleader. That one actually is hard for some people, because the key to that is you have to be on their side, even if you don't agree. I have people who are like I can't do that and I'm like cool, then tell them you can't do that, that's okay, I'm not your person, if that's what you need and how it looks in reality is.
Jen Hardy:You know, I have a friend who calls me. I'm driving down I-35, she's bawling like. She's like I can't right and like barely able to talk, and I'm like this could take a long time or I can make sure this is efficient, effective and really serves her. So I asked her to do box breathing. I'm like hey, take a minute, do some breaths. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. Let me know and I literally just asked her those four questions which of these is best going to serve you right now. I listed them off and then she said well, I think the first thing I need is to vent, because I haven't told anybody this and I'm like got it. She's like, but then I need you to help me figure out what to do. I know how to listen, I know what she needs and I'm going to be able that conversation feeling so much better, right.
Claude:That's true that a lot of time, when people just want to vent, you don't want to hear how to fix it. Asking the question really can help that relationship and you never think about it because you tend to go straight to where your mind is right, but which becomes you. It's what you want, but at the end of the day it is what the other person needs, and asking the question is so powerful it is definitely changes the tone of the conversation too because you're there for the person for what they actually need.
Jen Hardy:the beautiful thing is because we're we are selfish human beings. Yeah, I'm also still getting what I need as the one who's on who just asked, as as the listener, because now I'm not and this is gonna sound bad, but it's not how I mean it. I'm not wasting my time Like we're not taking longer than we need to diving into parts of the conversation that really don't even need to be talked about. The whole point of me trying to fix it immediately is maybe because I'm uncomfortable and I need to get out of it, but in reality, when I pre frame this way, we both have our needs met much more effectively and efficiently in this conversation.
Jess:Or you're wrongly assuming. They just wanted the fix verse to vent and therefore you both leave the conversation very frustrated. So I think bringing it up at the beginning is smart, because then you both have the established understanding of what the conversation and where the deliverables will go.
Jess:And it's funny because you think about that like from a work situation. It should be more ingrained in conversation, but it works in personal relationships. You don't always think about that from a friendship one because you feel like you would know them so well that you're just assuming that you have an idea of why they chose you to call.
Claude:And I think it depends also on the men and between men and women, right? I think a lot of times the man wants to fix it, and that's where in a relationship, that's where you get conflict also, as in like I don't need you to fix it, I can fix it, just listen, you know asking the question what do you need me to do? It's, it's very important my dad.
Jen Hardy:my dad got to learn these from us and he was like that's my favorite thing, that's going to save me so much time with you and your sister.
Jess:It's true. I feel like that's an amazing tip for everybody, regardless of your personal relationships, professional, all that. Another thing that we heard when we kind of investigated you guys was your CARES framework. Where did this CARES framework originate and can you help explain what it means to our listeners?
Irina Alexander:We were invited and introduced into the first responder world and asked to create a program and first responders they love acronyms as we were creating a program and brainstorming they love acronyms as we were creating a program and brainstorming literally what's going to be part of the program and everything. It was at a coffee shop, two of us and a friend who brought us into what I would call a first responder world, and it took us a little bit quick to identify what each letter and how it resonates with us. Certain letters were redefined but overall, looking back, it summarizes everything we do in such a beautiful way. So it's not only for first responders, it's through all the modalities that we do and teach. So it just kind of put a bow in it. So that's how the CARES happens and CARES stands for C is communication, a is awareness, r is resilience, e is emotional literacy and S is self-mastery.
Jess:You just so eloquently stated what CARES stands for. Give us some examples of how this comes to life in your training it boils down to awareness, acknowledgement, acceptance.
Jen Hardy:It starts there. We can't do anything about what we don't know, that we don't know. Tell me something you don't even know, that you don't know. You can't. You can tell me the things that you know that you don't know. I know I don't know Chinese. I know Irina does, but I don't know what I don't know. So we start there.
Jen Hardy:We start with what are some things you may not even know, that you don't know are impacting your perspective, your model of the world, how you're communicating with yourself, with others, how that's creating the experience that you're having and, therefore, how you can start to change it. But we're not trying to immediately throw them into this whole new world. We just want them to start to loosen their grip on what they believe is possible. And once they start to loosen that grip by understanding this is just how I am, this is just the way I was raised you can change something. People do change. People can change, I like to say. People actually just remember who they really are. But you have to also start to find the language behind that, and that's a big part of what we're doing, as well as bringing in communication elements just like what we just shared.
Jen Hardy:Because if I jokingly use shapes, if I've been a circle my whole life and that's how people see me, that's what people believe me to be, that's how I'm received, and I come out and I'm like oh, but I'm actually, I'm a triangle, I've always been a triangle, and I want to come out and I want people to know I'm a triangle and they're like bitch, you're a circle, you've been a circle your whole life and I'm like no, I'm a triangle. Like I need new communication tools. I need new navigation tools. I need new ways to practice being who I say that I am, regardless of how the world has currently been receiving me.
Claude:You say that changing your communication can make people see you in another way.
Jen Hardy:Right, I mean that's an element of it. Absolutely, I believe so.
Claude:Can you remind me what the E is Emotional? What?
Irina Alexander:Literacy.
Claude:So what is it? Because I understand the emotional intelligence but it's the first time that I hear emotional literacy so that's a great question.
Irina Alexander:Literacy is being able to translate what's happening inside. What emotions are you feeling? Because a lot of people either have very few emotions, they even can name I'm sad and I'm happy, and that's pretty much the end of their vocabulary, plus minus. Couple With awareness comes what am I truly feeling? So being literal with your internal world. That's why we call it literacy and not intelligence. Okay.
Claude:It's learning what all your emotions.
Jen Hardy:It also has an aspect of how do you navigate it, how do you process it, because if you've been experiencing what you're labeling as anger and you're trying to process it as anger, but really it was actually hurt and hurt is scary, and so you label it as anger instead, it's going to be really difficult and take a lot longer to process because you're trying to process anger and not hurt At the same time, some people, when they are hurt, they translate aggressive.
Claude:It's a whole shift, Instead of starting to say I am hurt and I'm going to start screaming at everybody, because that is again a reframe of your emotion, that I should not be angry, it's just being hurt, so it's a whole shift.
Irina Alexander:There is more to it, because are you hurt or are you feeling hurt? There are two different statements. How would I interpret it?
Jess:It's almost giving you the step back to understand really truly what's happening, versus reacting. Some people do go right to anger, even though it's really hurt their feeling, but you have to define it to understand how you can really move past it. Yeah, which now it makes me think it's similar to giving yourself the the five-second rule, whatever, that is, the pause before saying yes. You should be doing the same thing before you have an emotional response. There are a lot of people, though, that probably still can't determine what they're actually truly feeling, that they'll be able to take the step back and not get so angry right away. But to your point, irina, about whether or not do you feel hurt or are you hurt. How does one person figure that one out?
Claude:Yeah, because I'm very simple. I don't see the difference.
Irina Alexander:Well, you're not hurt. You're experience hurt. You're not hurt. You don't want to label yourself as hurt, and that's also goes with the language that you speak internally with yourself about yourself. So sometimes we refer to it to figure out what am I feeling and, at the same time, awareness and honesty. Have a courage not only to pause and to become aware of it, but also have courage to be honest with yourself and realize what you're feeling, without judgment, because a lot of times we start judging ourselves for what we feel. Oh, I shouldn't feel this way.
Irina Alexander:You want to recognize what it is, without putting a label of good or bad, and that's what we call emotional literacy. And if you take it a step further, neuroscience-based, the emotion can only live in your nervous system for only 90 seconds. The emotion can only live in your nervous system for only 90 seconds, and people are like bullshit, I've been mad and I've been bad for more than a minute and a half. What happens is, after you experience it internally through your nervous system, your brain kicks in and it starts to create a story that says it over and over and over and creates an unresolved loop that keeps you stuck. So that's what emotional literacy is giving the understanding of what is happening and ability to get out of that loop.
Jess:What would you say to a woman afraid of failing or constantly has that loop in their head that they can't keep up, they can't do everything, they're failing.
Jen Hardy:First of all, fear. I'm afraid of failing, I'm afraid of letting people down, I'm afraid of looking a certain way right. Is it fear or is it danger? Fear and danger, they get muddled together as one thing. They get muddled together as a survival instinct of this is going to kill me, whereas fear is not real. Fear is produced by the brain, it's fictional. It is not a real thing unless you are actually being chased by a tiger or a bear or whatever.
Jen Hardy:That is a fear, that is a danger response. My life is in danger, something is in danger a survival response. But in today's world we have these survival level responses to I'm failing, I'm going to look bad, I'm going to be judged, I'm going to be kicked out of the tribe, whatever. That might be right, because that's a survival level response to something that's not an actual threat to my life. When we're having those thoughts, you got to pause, you got to break the loop of the autonomic processing of this is could kill me this, could it could be the end of me? No, it will not.
Jen Hardy:Like Irina said, could it piss someone off? Could you lose people? Could people decide they don't want to be your friend anymore? Could you potentially lose your job, yeah, maybe that's a beautiful gift in disguise, not to mention the people who fall away. If people want to leave your life because you finally speak your truth, because you finally stand in who you really are, do speak your truth. Because you finally stand in who you really are, do you need to be with those people? Let's let those people go Bye-bye. My favorite part about my relationship with Irina is we are so freaking blunt with each other. We are able to say whatever needs to be said because we have a filter for each other of I love you and this isn't working.
Claude:There's a difference also saying the truth and how you say it. You can still say what you think without being rude, without being aggressive. That makes a big difference as well.
Jen Hardy:Absolutely. We say a lot that you can't control how someone's going to receive you. All you can do is manage the outcome. I can practice saying how I want, to say it as many times as I want. It doesn't mean that person's going to receive me the way I expect or need to want them to. All I can do is manage the outcome.
Jess:One of the things that really stood out to me was there was a comment that you had on your website about the belief that vulnerability is a strength, and I love that so much because being vulnerable actually is a good thing, because you control who you are. Is there some reason that you were so much focused on vulnerability as a strength?
Irina Alexander:vulnerability is byproduct and it's extremely important part, because you cannot get where you want to go without being honest, because what is vulnerability is a pure honesty without fear, feeling safe enough to express fully, without the fear in the outcome, and that's what Jen brought the communication, how we talk to each other, with each other, is the fact that we can say whatever we want and need to say, as long as it's without blame. We can express ourselves. I'm hurt. Your behavior pissed me off. This is what I'm experiencing right now. I don't like it, I don't appreciate that and I was like okay, like I will not take it personal. It was just recent conversation. I was like okay, cool, like not a problem, so it's, there is the power of being truly you, being truly vulnerable, because then nobody has anything to hold against you. I am true to myself and I did what's best for me and for my nervous system.
Jess:Do you think that that is truly something you can have with all relationships?
Jen Hardy:Yes, and we're not going to sit here and pretend like it doesn't require a lot of freaking practice, a lot of courage. Courage and vulnerability are synonymous. You cannot learn how to be vulnerable without practicing being courageous and vice versa. The same way, you can't have love and joy and connection and excitement and miraculous all these beautiful things without risking rejection and then shut down and anger and sadness and being hurt. You have to risk one for the other. We're're not saying it's not hard sometimes. We're not saying that it's like oh, so easy.
Jen Hardy:I was sweating and hot when I was sending her this Marco Polo, I'm annoyed as hell right now, and I was on pins and needles for like five minutes before she responded, cause I was like I don't know if I said that. Well, there's still a nervous system element to navigate that we bring up as well. It's like this. This stuff happens, but it's my body's response. I know I'm okay, I know I'm safe, I know the relationship we've built. So, even though my body is having this response I logically have created, I'm teaching my body that it's okay. We've got to get those two things in alignment.
Irina Alexander:Because you have a choice, right. She could have kept it for herself, getting mad because something is happening and she's not expressing it, or she could just express it and we move on and everything is fine, and we've had a conversation about it.
Claude:It also shows the strength of your relationship without any negative repercussions Say, okay, you know what I don't need, that I'm leaving, you know. So to really identify also the strength of relationship is also so important to be able to have this authenticity.
Jen Hardy:Well, it's taking practice. We've been friends for five years. We've been practicing the tools that we teach. Our stuff isn't theory, we practice every day. And I can say we both practice it in our relationships. My partner, he and I, we dive into these places and these spaces with each other constantly. Yes to your question of can this be in any relationship? Absolutely, we hope it can. We want it to be in all relationships. We would have a much better world.
Jess:You might more organically push yourself to do it with those stronger relationships that you have, but technically you should be doing it with all relationships, regardless of your work besties or just somebody that I have a couple meetings with if they take it wrong, then that relationship is not worth it.
Claude:Right, but you stay. You still have your authenticity and what you meant, and that's it okay, bye-bye you're still honoring yourself.
Jess:Yes, so just put one spin on that, because we have a lot of people in our, in our podcasts that are work professionals, right, corporate nine to five jobs. You can't just blow off people fully. I would just put one little caveat like you can't own their well, you have to be, you have to feel it.
Claude:Obviously you're not going to say you know F you.
Jen Hardy:That's a great point and Irina alluded to it, but we talk a lot about iMessaging, so that's more relevant to a nine to five or to a corporate workspace where you are going to have to navigate conversations that maybe outside you would be like yeah, I'm not having this conversation, I don't even want to, but maybe you have to for whatever reason you believe that you have to. The I messaging is is part of, and we have lots of tools that help support bridging that gap in that conversation where you still get to honor your boundaries, your voice, what you need to express, while still respecting what's going on on the other side right, you're still going to have this, like you probably would show up the with your authenticity, regardless but the potential ways of positioning or the final outcome.
Jess:You might be a little bit more willing to just let somebody go again if it's personal or if it's work and you're like I have to go to another meeting with them an hour later.
Claude:I mean and then there is also how you consider say OK, bye, bye, because that is physically right, you can cut them off. But then you can cut them off emotionally Right, you're still going to have to work with it, with them, but you're not going to have this relationship, emotional relationship, because it doesn't bring you anything. I think there's a difference between physical and emotional.
Irina Alexander:You know, breakup no yes and no, because it's very easy to say, well, cut them off, I'm no longer emotionally involved with you. That's great in theory, theory. In reality, there's very few people. I want to say I'm one of them, but in reality there are very few people who can end the relationship and still be friends or still be civil.
Claude:Yeah, I would say more colleagues than friends, because friendship is emotional, right it's harder to transition all of a sudden.
Irina Alexander:Okay, you did something, cut it off and I'm moving on. You have a history. It's great in theory. In real life it's not. You have to get into the root cause and you have to figure out what pissed you off.
Irina Alexander:Why did you let them go in your life? Why did not align? So there has to be a closure. The loop needs to be closed emotionally for you to truly let the person go and then yet still treat them with respect. Because if you're just going into avoidance mode, well, I'm just going to treat you as a colleague and no more.
Irina Alexander:That's great on the surface, but you did not process it. So, being able to close the loop, get your closure on everything that is happening, realize that, okay, this person didn't align with what I am, but I'm still grieving my friendship because I spent two years, one year, six months, whatever it is with this person. You still have to process it. So that's where emotional literacy comes in place is being truly honest with yourselves that, hey, I still miss this person. I love to hang out and have after work drinks. When the loop is closed, then, when you truly can just become a acquaintances or colleagues without any negative or expressed emotions towards them, and that's why I said it's easier in theory, but in practice you truly have to process it and you have to go deep in order to let it go okay, yeah, I don't know, that's something that everybody can handle.
Jess:I think a lot of people lean so much on the emotion that time is just cutting off.
Irina Alexander:Yeah, that's why a lot of people physically remove themselves, because they cannot emotionally coexist.
Jess:Jen, specifically to you what's a truth about burnout or healing that you wish more women knew?
Jen Hardy:A truth about burnout is the fact that we don't talk about the guilt and the shame that's attached to it. What do you mean? Well, value and productivity, equaling my identity and who I am and wearing it as a badge, then the silent saboteur is the potential, the guilt and the shame that shows up when I'm going to slow down, I'm going to back off, I'm going to do less, I need to rest, I'm going to take time for me. Someone's got it worse, someone's got it harder, someone's struggling more. I've got it easy. Whatever, I'm supposed to be the strong one. I was built to be resilient. That was more my story.
Jen Hardy:So there's this guilt and this shame that comes up that, no, I can't, I can't take time for me. I can't, I can't rest. I was in a position where I wasn't financially contributing as much as I wanted to in the partnership I'm in, in my relationship, and so the idea that I was at home but had all this free time not chosen free time, but I have all this free time. But then there's, like this guilt, when I'm also exhausted and want to take a nap or go for a walk instead of work on something. There's this juxtaposition, right. There's so much guilt and shame around putting ourself first so that we don't end up in that burnout position. It's a cultural thing that's really gotten nailed into us, do you think also it comes with age.
Claude:As you get older you start to be more loose about the importance of your time, of not feeling guilty.
Jen Hardy:I think it can come with age If you are taking enough time to like, broaden your perspective and open your mind. It's unfortunate that I can say I've met plenty of 60 year olds who they're still wearing it like a badge of honor and they, you know, they haven't seen anything different. Our Gen Z is a beautiful example, because they're the generation out there rocking the boat right now saying, oh screw this, I don't want to live the kind of life you lived, where it was miserable hours a day and you barely make enough ends meet to survive. They're like I want to work because I enjoy it. I want to work because there's a mission and a purpose and there's value, and I commend them for that. And they're there shaking the boat for people, and it's a good thing. Many of us, as we get older, realize this isn't worth it, but some of the people have it so deeply ingrained and they're so they're in an environment that's so closed in they never see outside of it.
Jess:We'd love for you to share what's one small thing they can do with someone else to begin stepping out of burnout today.
Irina Alexander:If you are in a position of having a bestie, sit down and have an uncomfortable conversation and express what you've been feeling, what you've been going through. If you truly have a bestie that you work with, it will be very, very beneficial. You will feel good and it will get you closer, just to sharing your experience and what you've been going through, and it's very healing for both.
Jen Hardy:Add to that shame lives in silence. So when you bring that to the light and you're willing to speak, shame loses its grip a little goosebumps for that.
Claude:Thank you so much, jen and ariana. We we learned so much in, you know, the 30 or so minutes. I mean it's incredible and our audience can already start to use this tool. You know this whole communication being being authentic, pausing not to be a yes right away. Where can our audience find you?
Irina Alexander:Our website, MotiveActionacademy, has all of our social media links, our email, our phone number, so one stop we'll get you all the information.
Claude:Motiveactionacademy Perfect and we'll make sure to add them on our show notes. Work besties. Thank you so much for listening. I'm sure you really truly enjoyed as much as we did. Jen and Irina. In the meantime, like forward, subscribe and we'll see you next week. Thank you.
Jess:Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break room, rescuing each other from endless meetings or just sending that perfectly timed meme. Having a work bestie is like having your own personal hype squad.
Claude:So keep lifting each other, laughing through the chaos and, of course, thriving. Until next time, stay positive, stay productive and don't forget to keep supporting each other.
Jen Hardy:Work besties.
