Leadership & Followership : Work Lessons Hidden In Tango

Dancer, speaker, and relationship coach Linda Sutton reveals how Argentine tango maps to work: leadership & followership as functions, not hierarchy; why consent and distance create safety; and how followers amplify a leader’s intent. From the “Invite → Embrace → Boundaries” framework to a simple reset line—“I’m just here to follow”—this convo turns dance into a practical playbook for teams and Work Besties.

Chapters

• 00:00 Tango, Body Language & Relationships
• 08:21 Leadership & Followership in Tango
• 16:53 Power Dynamics: Leading vs Following
• 25:07 Build Trust Through Movement
• 30:10 Body Language & Emotional Cues
• 36:03 Follower Amplifies the Leader (Tiny Lead, Big Expression)
• 39:39 Workplace Leadership & Teams: Applying Tango Principles

Key takeaways

• Roles = functions, not power. There’s no leader without a follower—partnership is an agreement.
• Invite → Embrace → Boundaries. Define closeness and consent explicitly (at work, too).
• Body > words. Most signals are nonverbal—read posture, distance, and tone for alignment.
• Safety is visible. Consent & distance are real-time cues leaders must protect.
• Amplification effect. A tiny lead becomes a big expression—the follower reflects and magnifies intent.
• Lead by listening. Build micro-feedback into every “step” so teams adjust before things break.
• Reset misalignment. Use the calm prompt: “I’m just here to follow.”

Try it this week

• Set your team’s embrace: agree on boundaries (response times, meeting norms, off-limits hours).
• Practice “no solutions—just space.” Ask “Do you want advice or a listening ear?”
• Run a micro-feedback loop: after each meeting, one sentence—“What worked / what to tweak next time?”

Guest: Linda Sutton — dancer, speaker, creator, relationship coach
Book: It Takes Two to Tango (the 22-step framework mentioned in the episode)
Website (as mentioned): lindadesutton.com • lindadesutton.com/ebook

Hosts: Jess & Claude — Work Besties Who Podcast
If you enjoyed this, follow, rate ★★★★★, and share with your Work Bestie!

Tags: leadership, followership, tango, body language, psychological safety, teams, workplace communication, boundaries, trust, micro-feedback

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Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband

Chapters

• 0:00 Tango, Body Language & Relationships
• 8:21 Leadership & Followership in Tango 16:53 Power Dynamics: Leading vs Following
• 16:09 Power Dynamics: Leading vs Following
• 24:36 Build Trust Through Movement
• 30:10 Body Language & Emotional Cues
• 36:03 Follower Amplifies the Leader (Tiny Lead, Big Expression)

Transcript

Jess: 0:00

You can tell relationships dynamics within three dances.

Linda Sutton: 0:05

Yes, the things that are required to build a successful dance and have harmony, synergy, closeness, trust and true partnership, because tango is the ultimate partnership dance. It is truly about leading and following. It's the same thing that you have to do to have a successful relationship.

Claude: 0:24

Hi, I'm Claude and I'm Jess. We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night and work besties for life.

Jess: 0:32

Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up, laugh through the chaos and thrive together in every industry Work besties. Most people communicate with words, but what happens when your body becomes the message? This week, we're joined with Linda Sutton dancer, speaker, creator and relationship coach, who teaches how tango can lead all of your relationships. So stick around to the end, where Linda will share with us a powerful truth of every successful partnership needs on and off the dance floor.

Claude: 1:06

Hi Linda, Thank you for joining us.

Linda Sutton: 1:09

Thank you, Claude and Jess. It is a pleasure. I am so looking forward to engaging with you guys, especially with our offline conversation. This is about to be a fun ride.

Claude: 1:18

Yes, totally so. First, like you saying our offline conversation, I love tango, especially Argentine tango. It's such a sexy dance. How did you start incorporating tango with relationship?

Linda Sutton: 1:33

Excellent. Well, tango. Like you, I just fell in love with it and then it took over my life. So prior to doing this work that I'm doing now, I was in corporate and I left my corporate work, which I still do some of, to teach dance full-time. Teach and perform dance full-time, and actually my area of expertise in the beginning of my dance career was the African roots of dance throughout the world. So I actually taught in a couple of universities exploring the African roots of dance, traditions and cultures all around the world, and started exploring the African roots of tango as a part of that body of work.

Linda Sutton: 2:08

What I found when I was doing the tango is it required everything of me. There was no faking the funk with tango. You have to be all in, you have to all be on the floor with your partner in order for it to work, and so that was the beginning of kind of this deep dive. Once I started working with couples and teaching them, two things emerged. Number one I could see within three songs, which is a tanda. Within that three songs, I knew everything that was going on in their relationships, and so I was able to use that information to coach them in their relationship so they could have more harmony in the dance because whatever was going on in their relationship would show up on the floor. The other piece of it was realizing people that might not want to do that coaching work or mentoring work verbally. They were more open to doing it through a fun activity that they didn't feel as intimidated by. So I started getting all of these referrals and then that was the birth of Tutu Tango.

Claude: 3:14

In Tango usually the man actually leads.

Linda Sutton: 3:18

Yes.

Claude: 3:19

And the woman follows. So how do you see when there's a relationship, when a woman doesn't want to be led, they want to be part of the discussion.

Linda Sutton: 3:29

That was me in the beginning, so I was like no man gonna tell me what to do. I'm a leader already. What you doing?

Linda Sutton: 3:36

here, so I know that concern and that issue all too well and we address it in my work and we really understand leadership and followership as positions in the relationship that have functions. But one of the primary things I lead with is that there is no leader without a follower In the dance of tango. It requires agreement to be in partnership with one another and in that partnership there are roles that we take on that fulfill certain functions that allow us to thrive, and so a woman can still be a leader and she just moves in the dance in a different functioning role that unlocks a different part of herself, those two positions. But it does not go without saying that if there is no agreement with the follower to be in that role and position, then there is no leader and there's a respect for both roles and both functions.

Linda Sutton: 4:31

In the dance you just start in that role because of the positions. So the leader is the person who's initiating and they are the person that's facing, if you will, the flow of traffic. So it's really a position thing. But in our framework the leader's goal and role is to lead and then follow their lead. So they're taking on both functions even though their position is the leadership position. They have to lead and then they have to follow behind their leader. They lead and then the energy is passed to the follower to execute and then provide feedback. So there's kind of this circular energetic flow in the dynamics of the dance. Exactly, it's a dynamic flow of energy that passes from one person to the next and back to the other person throughout the dance. So, once again, leading follower are positions in the dance and the function is a dynamic flow of leadership and followership in the dance.

Jess: 5:24

With Argentinean tango. The male role is supposedly the leader, but in many parts of the dance it's actually the woman leading. To your point there's that give and take and a lot of it's built off that trust of each other. Linda, I admitted this to you before we started recording that I actually had taken Argentinian tango and I was not very good because I was laughing the whole time. What would you give advice for people that couldn't get on the zone?

Linda Sutton: 5:52

The beautiful thing is that there's not just one way to do tango. Tango, even though there are the principles, the rules that govern the roles and then the rules that govern the road, which is how you navigate, it is really about the couple. It's not just one style. That's always serious and staunch and what you see on stage and in movies. There is a playful side, there is one that flows, there's one that's very romantic, there's a side of it that's very sensual, there's a side of it that's very rhythmic, and all of these different styles are within tango. So it's totally appropriate that when you came into the dance, you were using laughter to relax into it, to connect in with your partner, to perhaps release your nervousness and to create bond, and that is totally appropriate. It's not just one style that where you have to be serious and stern.

Jess: 6:41

That might be a misperception, because that's what I was thinking. I'm not taking it serious enough because every time I've seen it professionally danced, it is more of either the very sensual or very stern.

Linda Sutton: 6:52

And it's good that you mentioned that, because that brings up a very important point for people who are new to the dance. There is social tango and there is stage tango, and they are very different styles. Stage tango is for performance. The movements are very big so everyone can see it. It's to entertain you, to wow you. However, social tango is really about two people connecting, getting to know one another, bond and build trust. The movements are usually very small. It's not really about showing off for the crowd and big movements. It's about creating trust and safety between the two of you. As you deepen that trust and safety, other people will be in awe of it because when they see you dance on the floor but that's not your intention your intention is not to show off for the crowd. It's to connect with your partner in a way that's awe-inspiring when you coach couples.

Claude: 7:43

It's more the social tango that you're doing, right.

Linda Sutton: 7:47

Absolutely Well. So the social thing has to occur before even the stage tango, because stage tango is very complex and it requires a lot of trust not to get hurt, but absolutely with couples we start with social tango and those principles.

Jess: 8:01

And you mentioned in your kickoff, you can tell relationships dynamics within three dances.

Linda Sutton: 8:09

Yes, how did that happen? The things that are required to build a successful dance and have harmony, synergy, closeness, trust and true partnership, because tango is the ultimate partnership dance. It is truly about partnership, leading and following. They begin to dissolve and it all is about you working in concert with your partner to create the dance, because you go through the same exact steps of connection, trust, concern, fear, getting in step on the dance. It's the same thing that you have to do to have a successful relationship and if you're having a power struggle with your partner off the dance floor, it is absolutely going to show up on the dance floor. If you have trust issues, if there is not an equal level of respect or value, or you get along really, really well and you finish each other's sentences, oh, it's like don't you tell me what to do, along really, really well and you finish each other's sentences.

Linda Sutton: 9:05

Oh, it's like don't you tell me what to do and then you'll see it on the dance floor in the form of resistance and pushing back and the desire to be on one's own access.

Linda Sutton: 9:13

So there's all this body language that tells more about your relationship than your words could ever say. Most people are not aware that 93% of communication is actually nonverbal. Only 7% of it is the words. It's tonality, it's body language, it's energy is the 93%, and so that's how we know. Like I said, I know all y'all business and they're surprised. They're like I, you know. I'm like okay, this is. I give them a profile. I'm like okay, so this is what you guys are going through at home. And they're like how do you?

Claude: 9:48

So you see that there's a misbalance between the couple. How do you change that dynamic?

Linda Sutton: 9:54

Absolutely. I take them through a series of movement exercises, through a class or a camp or a private lesson, and literally we work through building their dance, and then they have these aha moments in their relationship because they can feel it in their body. So they realize that trust is not some sort of abstract idea, it is actually a trust or lack of trust actually shows up in how their partner's body responds to them. Safety shows up in their body even misunderstanding. For example, if a follower does not understand the leader's lead, he can actually feel that confusion in her body, and so then it becomes oh my goodness, okay, I can hear when I'm not clear, I can hear when she doesn't quite understand. Even though her eyes are closed, even though I can't see her face, I can feel that tension or that concern or hesitation in her body. That's how we walk through it in the sessions or class.

Jess: 10:51

I heard you mention energy alignment. It sounds similar to what you're talking about. What does that look like in a healthy relationship? And then what does that look like where you can tell there's some strife or opportunities in that relationship?

Linda Sutton: 11:02

One of the things that I like to do because I know as a lady myself and as I work with ladies who are leaders, always reconciling that followership position in the relationship. It's a partnership and it's just a function of positions in the dance. What we find in this work and what I do in terms of a healthy dynamic is, number one understanding. It's a partnership. That's what the work is. And number two, they're both equal and interdependent. So that's why I always lead with.

Linda Sutton: 11:34

There is no leader without a follower. So your role as a leader is completely dependent upon a vision that's shared and therefore agreement. If I don't agree to follow you and work together collaboratively with you, then you are not a leader. And work together collaboratively with you, then you are not a leader. And then, at any point in time where I'm not in agreement and you see that not only in relationships that are romantic, but also friendships and in work if we are no longer in alignment with the vision that the leader is holding and the agreements that we have in place, then you lose followers. We each have roles and we're contributing to this whole in a partnership to create something beautiful.

Claude: 12:15

I love this analogy A follow-on leader is not a hierarchy, because usually, yes, that's what people assume right away and I love that you're saying no, it's not. It's actually side by side.

Linda Sutton: 12:27

It actually starts with the follower. And you see that in the dance and that's what I love about it, because I started out this and it took me about a year and a half because I'm strong If you guys can't already tell, I am a strong sister Just that resistance to being controlled and told what to do was more mental. But then I realized that the dance actually starts with the follower. But then I realized that the dance actually starts with the follower. The leader is inspired by the follower in the dance to go through all of that to learn what is needed in order to lead. Most leaders don't wake up one day and it's like oh yes, I want to dance tango. Many of them they see followers or some people that they want to collaborate with and then they say I'm going to gather the skills that are necessary in order to collaborate with this person and you don't become a leader typically until you have been a follower.

Jess: 13:24

You had shared with us the two to tango structure framework. Help us understand how you created it and how it helps to navigate with conflict or misalignment.

Linda Sutton: 13:33

Oh great. So when we talk about alignment, the image give people as a starting point is yin and yang, and so yin and yang represents the masculine and feminine forces male, woman just kind of how things occur in the cosmos. And this apparently is important to you guys, because I see you all laughing like.

Jess: 13:52

Well, we have many clips about how, in a majority of our episodes, one of us says yin and yang. Because I do believe it. I always comment it was her and then, when I was doing the editing, back to make a funny clip about it it wound up being more me saying it, because that's the energy between the two of you.

Linda Sutton: 14:11

That's probably what you're seeing Exactly, because, when you like, you two are a perfect example of balance and synergy and working together and harmony and playfulness and a shared vision and partnership. And so it makes sense that yin and yang would be a natural way that you would describe or perceive your interaction Equally in the dance. When you talk about healthy energetic alignment, this is what I like to say with couples, you know, because there is a masculine and feminine, at least in the couples that I work with, there's a man and woman, so there's a natural masculine and feminine dynamic. But what I also like to tell people is that most people focus on the masculine and the feminine, but they forget the little circles that are in that particular image, that is, of the other. So within yang there is yin and within yin there is yang.

Linda Sutton: 15:01

And so when we were talking about that kind of flow of energy and dynamic that you see in the dance, where the lead leads and then follows his lead and then, once he passes the energy, the follower executes. So there's an initiation which is activity, there's execution, which is activity, and so you see that kind of flow. That is the baseline that helps me to walk people through the framework. And then there's a way that you build your dance. You invite your partner, you approach your partner, you get into the embrace, you set the boundaries and you express what your level of trust is. You make tests, and so you go through those stages in every single dance in order to have a successful dance. Well, if you go through those same exact steps in your interaction with your partner, you will get repeatable results. It's mind-blowing when you see it in action.

Jess: 15:57

And you mentioned a lot of this has to do with body language versus verbal. Knowing that a lot of the listeners are focused on continuing to develop the relationship with work besties, are there elements of this framework that they could incorporate into understanding their bestie by just reading body language?

Linda Sutton: 16:15

which is a way of listening. So I'm going to start with the embrace, because in some of your previous work I've heard people talk about. Well, people have different perceptions of their work relationship. Some of them think it's just professional and so the boundary is that we're just professionals and never the twain shall meet in terms of other areas of my life. For some we're besties, but it's only in a professional setting, so we don't really introduce our personal lives or other parts of ourselves to it. And then the other is we full on besties on at work.

Linda Sutton: 16:59

At happy hour you come into the barbecue at my house, my children's birthday parties, my mama come and make apple pie, you come over and get a slice. So you have those kind of ways of perceiving no-transcript. That's okay, but you establish that upfront and then you move through your connection, which is the embrace. That way, in reverse, you have chest to chest contact, which is apilado, which means you're all in every area of your life, you're not on your own access and you bring together your professional lives, your personal lives, even sometimes your spiritual life together to really connect with each other, both in the workplace and out of the workplace. Once you've established that connection and then you interact with each other from there and then everything in between. So once you meet someone that you gel with, just be clear in your mind and communicate clearly to them where you feel comfortable in terms of the level of closeness. And then, once you've established that, then move in that. And I say that because some people, like the two of you, it's like all in, like BFF, right, and if she called me after work, I'm pulling off my earrings and I'm driving up and I'm saying where you at, I'm pulling up, so this people. But then some people may not feel comfortable with that, but they really want to have a really, really close relationship within the professional boundaries and that's okay and that they can really share and connect. But then when they go home, like you say, working with teams that are remote, they may never, ever get to see each other physically, because I'm in one country and my teammates in another country, so we may never get to engage that close, but we still may have a closeness that we can bring to our work. So that's the first concept.

Linda Sutton: 19:06

The second concept is the invitation, which is once again using verbal language, and usually that's how work besties meet each other, like there's some, there's a chemistry, there is a pull. You feel like we going to get along. I can see already from across the room. And then you're in that meeting and someone says something and you say something and you look at each other like, yeah, I see you at the water cooler I can see. So you have that eye contact.

Linda Sutton: 19:34

You see someone in their body language, perhaps in several meetings or in interactions, the way that their body language invites you in and lets you know, hey, I feel safe and comfortable with you, you can get closer. Or even just the way they lean in when they talk to you. There's these nonverbal cues that you can use to get closer. We definitely use it in tango and we would use it here. And then I would say the last thing, which is how the energy moves in between, is that trust builds over time. With tango, even though we may start out in the open embrace, as time moves on I may feel more and more comfortable as I build trust to get closer and closer to you. In tango we do that and I can see that happening in the work environment as well. It would be appropriate. You may start out. I'm feeling a little bit more guarded, perhaps because of the past or I'm not sure. But then as we engage over time, we can build that level of closeness and deepen that trust.

Claude: 20:33

I was thinking what's actually the opposite, when you have one person that definitely wants to be your workplace from the beginning, so I'm trying to steal you from me, and then the other person is not there. Is it more that verbal cue or the physical cue?

Linda Sutton: 20:52

Absolutely, and we see that in tango, for example. There might be a leader or a follower who is like yes, I would like to get closer to you, and then there's another partner which is not quite there. It could be an overall thing or it could be a just in the moment thing, like today I'm not having a good day and we might normally dance a certain way, but today I'm kind of in a different space. Usually the follower sets the distance only because they're in the most vulnerable position, meaning they're the ones who's walking backwards. So usually they set that. But the leader also is listening and watching.

Linda Sutton: 21:29

Okay, partner is standing 12 inches away from me, or 18 inches away from me. That's a clear cue that they want open embrace, that they need some space, that they need some distance, and so I'm going to engage with them in that way and not going to try to pull them in when they're there. I'm going to engage with them from this place. And so leaders do that. They listen to the distance and the body language of their follower or their partner, and then they make adjustments and it's okay. And the whole thing is to create a safe space for them to feel comfortable with the distance that they've established, and so it's a beautiful, beautiful thing in terms of leadership, and this is where leading is not really a hierarchy, it's a role. The leader is saying my partner has greater distance, so my role is just to create a safe space for them to establish their boundaries and respect it and honor them and interact with them in the space that they've created, that I'm going to create for us.

Jess: 22:30

That they've created and that I'm going to create for us. This relates so beautifully to work besties, Cause that's pretty much the ethos of the relationship is to create that safe space for each other. Obviously, being in Yang bounces back and forth. I'm just thinking. Over the last couple of weeks there's been a couple of times where you've come up to me in the office and been like how are you doing? What's going on? Ready to like talk about something.

Claude: 22:58

And I just give you the look and you're like, okay, okay, I'm not going to settle away because I can't.

Jess: 23:00

And then that's the thing is that I didn't have to say anything. I just gave you the look and you knew oh yeah, and I did trust that.

Claude: 23:08

Yeah, I didn't take it personally. I'm like okay she'll come. Her time she'll come and I know she'll come back later and say, okay, I can talk now. I can be vice versa.

Jess: 23:19

So yeah, that's totally that's a great example of that Real time that's been happening a lot.

Linda Sutton: 23:25

Exactly, and the beautiful thing is that you didn't take offense to it, you didn't feel as a rejection, and that's the beautiful dynamic your own personal tango. She doesn't want it to close. Embrace the day or in this moment. I respect that. I create the space for it. And the wonderful thing is when you honor and you create the space for your partner to be in that fluidity in terms of level of trust, level of closeness, based on where they are, then it creates the space for them to move through it. So let's say, today I'm needing some space. When you're like, okay, I'm going to hold the space for you, even if you're 20 feet away. And then, once you have processed, when you've allowed yourself to calm down, then you go looking for your bestie. You'll be like, hey, girl, where?

Claude: 24:10

you at. Where does the guy seat you all day?

Linda Sutton: 24:18

But looking for your bestie.

Jess: 24:19

You were like hey, girl, where you at?

Claude: 24:20

where does the guy beat you all day. But it's also because we know each other, we know what is happening in each other lives. Yeah, so that's why I was professionally and personally, yeah, you know exactly. So that is why you know that you're not taking it personally, because you know fundamentally what they are going through. And that was and I like that point also one day when we had, I had a question, I'm like how are you? And told me something. And then, and I misread it and I gave solutions.

Jess: 24:46

And you answered I don't need solutions.

Claude: 24:49

I need to vent.

Linda Sutton: 24:51

And the beautiful thing about body language and energetic alignment is it works extremely well when you know each other, but it still works even if you don't. And if you move with an awareness of your partner or the person that you're engaging with and you're looking at that and knowing that most of the communication is going to come from this before they open their mouths, then the minute they started to speak, they would just be watching your cues and they would say, oh, okay, her face is disengaged, okay, her body pulled back. Okay, she went from smiling to not smiling. She went from leaning forward as she was to leaning back. I was like I'm not listening to Claude and I'm like, know, she went from leaning forward as she was to leaning back.

Jess: 25:34

I was like I'm like, oh, she's not listening. No, yes, no, I was thinking of something else.

Linda Sutton: 25:41

It's also incredible.

Claude: 25:43

I think you need an emotional maturity to understand those cues Because, for example, I know people that I give this physical like get away from me. They don't understand, so they keep on going.

Jess: 25:58

They do. They're playing tango with you. They see it as a challenge.

Linda Sutton: 26:02

Yeah, it's like you threw down the rose here I go and I'm like nope, nope, I'm not looking at each other.

Jess: 26:11

This is when you know people really well. I immediately know what she's talking about.

Linda Sutton: 26:15

The movies Tango is like about the chase and the conquering and all that. It is actually not. That in practice Really is about the invitation and the acceptance of the invitation and there is a persistence, but not from a conquering standpoint, at least from a social environment. If there is a persistence, but not from a concrete standpoint, at least from a social environment. If there is resistance, the leader usually because there's principles that govern tango the follower is usually observing the leaders in a variety of environments before they accept the dance. When the follower does not accept their dance or their invitation, then they understand that there's an energy misalignment. So the leader doesn't take that as a I've got to conquer.

Linda Sutton: 27:01

As much as there's not invitation, there's not enough information or there is a vibe misalignment. It doesn't mean that they'll never try again, because usually in social settings if people are not already coupled up you might be having an off day, I might check in later. But if people are not already coupled up, you might be having an off day, I might check in later. But if she sends a very clear no, then they're like okay, there's a vibe check, we're just not on the same page. Just like in work, just like in relationship. It's just not a fit, and you can still be in the same space and not be partners.

Claude: 27:31

Sometimes the follower is not ready yet, right, because so the leader might try a bit later, in a different way, to really be able to be, to look differently at the other person and work with them to make them secure and trusty.

Linda Sutton: 27:50

Absolutely. That's the same way in terms of work as you're getting to know your coworkers. You're a new person on the team. You're still trying to figure out who you vibe with, who you can trust, because you can't trust everybody at work, everybody not trustworthy. As you go through that, you may have the welcoming team like hi, welcome. But that new person is like I'm not sure yet, and so you don't stop making a space for them to feel welcome just because in that first couple of days they're still trying to feel it out. You create the space for them and then you allow them to observe and make their decisions and you honor that.

Jess: 28:26

Have you ever had a bad partner on the dance floor and how did you overcome that? Who would share? Yes, not what I thought you were going to respond to.

Linda Sutton: 28:39

You don't get to dance this long and not have bad partners. It's less so nowadays because I take the time to observe my partners before I accept their invitation. At this point I can see some of the things that may not align with me. I definitely listen to my gut and listen to the energy, because it is an energy. If something in my energy says maybe not, then I trust that the body exchange that's going on.

Linda Sutton: 29:06

But early in my career I felt like you couldn't say no, you want to be nice and you want to accept everybody, and the gentleman was basically trying to get me to do something and it wasn't working. What I was receiving from them was not what they were leading, and so that's usually where it occurs. It's not usually that they're a bad leader. It's that they're not realizing that the signal that they're sending is not what's coming across and they don't know, they don't, are not yet aware that it's your leadership. Not necessarily she's not doing it right, she's just there to follow and that there's some feedback. The way that I handled, learned to handle it, was that I say I'm just here to follow and that works.

Jess: 29:50

It does helps them recognize that they're misaligned in what they're leading.

Linda Sutton: 29:56

That communicates the cause and effect, because leading and following is a cause and effect. So I'm the leader, so whatever I do is what's impacting you. If what's coming out is not what I want to see, then it's for me, as a leader, to make the adjustment. It's not, it doesn't matter whether or not they're getting it right. They know what to do or don't know what to do. It's for them to understand, at least in the dance, that, because we're in a space where there's safety issues, if something is not going as you need it to go, then I put the onus back. And because the leadership role is to initiate and their mind is to execute, so I just give them a gentle reminder that I'm just here to follow, and then they're like it's a very subtle way, but because they understand when I say I'm just here to follow, they're like so she's putting it back on me. I'm the one who's leading this and what I'm seeing is a function of what I'm doing. And so that's how I resolve it now, and I also teach my followers to do that gracefully.

Linda Sutton: 30:56

We're so used to verbal communication we don't think that that's sufficient, but what I use is my body language to just be in a non-combative position. I just stand and I wait. And then they're like trying to get it to do and I'm like I'm not understanding. I just wait and then if they do something and it's not working out, I stay. And that's actually I become a great follower. I would stand and I wouldn't move. Whatever they led, I would go to that position and then I would stay there. I wouldn't try to correct it, I wouldn't try to make it right, I wouldn't try to tell them it was right or wrong. I would just give them the space to see it. And then they realize right or wrong, I would just give them the space to see it.

Claude: 31:37

And then they realize, oh, she is a reflection of my lead, and then they would make the adjustment. It doesn't take much more. That is so interesting. It goes back to the hierarchy between, you know, follower and leader. You actually, a follower, has so much power as well well, that's why it's not a hierarchy.

Jess: 31:57

You're very equal the whole time.

Claude: 31:59

How are you?

Jess: 31:59

helping each other.

Claude: 32:00

And that is so interesting to say. At the beginning I was saying to the question oh, usually it's the man that is leading, but there's a power in both situations and the follower can actually impact the leader and make him change. And that is what is so fascinating.

Linda Sutton: 32:19

That is actually why I dance tango professionally Once I had that breakthrough, because I used to perceive the follower as a position of weakness because of that, that was where my resistance was. As opposed to, it is truly a position of power and even more energy. It actually unlocks something within you as a follower. Let me just back up with one thing the leader initiates, the follower executes. So the leader sends the energy and the follower is the physical expression of the energy that the gentleman has sent out. Everything that she is is just taking energy and showing it to the world. She actually amplifies it. So the gentleman understands for every centimeter of lead you're going to see six inches of movement in the woman.

Linda Sutton: 33:30

That number one is just extraordinary to realize. It's like wait a second. You literally are an exponential expression of all the power that you receive. So anything that anyone gives you, you have the ability in life and work to expand it and express it in a very large, powerful, creative way. And then the second thing is once I realized, then it allowed me, because I am such a strong leader in other areas, to really tap into how powerful I could be as a follower and to be that pure expression and be that pure feedback. So one of the reasons why I've done so well in Excel professionally is because I have a reputation for being a pure follower, and excel professionally is because I have a reputation for being a pure follower.

Linda Sutton: 34:19

So all the men that dance with me know what they are giving. I am going to be an exact quote, unquote reflection of that. So then they really know that the onus is on them. They really can't blame their followers on what's going on. They have to take full responsibility and ownership for everything they initiate. And I just am giving them feedback, pure without any. You got it wrong, you got it right. And it's a really powerful thing when I'm working with leaders for them to realize that, because then they have a completely different interaction with their followers, with their employees, with their children, with their wives. Because when they understand, everything they initiate is showing up in the world back to me in an amplified fashion. And if I want to see something different in the world, then I have got to change what I am doing, how I am leading, how I'm approaching another person, because they're just going to give back to me what I give and it's going to be bigger.

Claude: 35:21

It's incredible how and until we had this podcast and we started to talk, I never thought of the relationship in dancing can be applied to leadership also at work. It's great to have this analogy and it's so much easier then to apply as a leader at work, to apply that dense thoughts.

Linda Sutton: 35:43

Absolutely. We're talking about work, and so leadership typically is, in the workplace, hierarchical from an organization standpoint. However, even though the organizational chart may be hierarchical, the way that the work is done is in teams the more successful or the most successful organizations. The leader yields to their team. They are having the vision, they're leading the vision but, like in the dance, they're constantly getting feedback from their followers and their team members on how things are going, how things should go. You know they usually give verbal feedback or they give nonverbal feedback in terms of their satisfaction, because you can tell when a team is really on board with their leader and when a team is not on board. Their body language, how they perform, is a direct reflection of their relationship to their leader or their team members. I come in, I just give it the bare minimum. I don't really engage and participate in the meetings. That's a sign to leadership that you want to engage that person and it's feedback for you to make adjustments.

Claude: 36:48

And as a follower or leader, was giving you something and you say that you expanded six times? Was giving you something and you say that you expanded six times the same thing. If you're a good leader, you want your team to shine, to receive whatever you can give and then they can go make it this beautiful project.

Linda Sutton: 37:05

And that's what you see in the dance. When you see a couple dance, who are you watching? The woman actually, exactly, most people are looking at the woman because the woman is the follower. She's executing all the moves. The gentleman is leading the moves, but he's not executing the steps. You're watching the follower because the follower is the most expressive part of the dance. Gentleman does moves, but he can't lead and be doing more than she's doing, because he has to provide the stability and the support. So you're exactly right.

Linda Sutton: 37:35

The best leaders yield to their followers and make them look fabulous and, more importantly, they spend as much time listening to their followers as they do leading. The best leaders in tango are extraordinary listeners. They're listening to everything that's going on with their follower in her body and making adjustments every single step. We get so caught up in the bigness of the dance. The reason that our framework works is because this feedback conversation is happening with every single step. You can't get to the next step until you execute this one fully, and that's why, within three to five steps, if it's not working, the dance falls apart. It doesn't take 10 minutes of dancing for the dance to fall apart. It falls apart within three to five steps.

Jess: 38:25

Linda, if our listeners want more of this connection or harmony, or feel like they're missing this passion in their lives, where should they start?

Linda Sutton: 38:33

I just recently released a book called it Takes Two to Tango using the secrets of the dance to create a passionate partnership. There's 22 intricate steps that you use to build a dance and I draw the parallels on how you can build that in the relationship. I also have some materials on my website, lindadesuttoncom. Forward slash ebook For people that are just afraid of dancing itself. They can start there to get over their fear interpretation of dancing before they start the next phase of dancing with another.

Claude: 39:01

Thank you so much, linda. Really it was a very enlightening episode. We truly love it and we can see and apply that dance metaphor to our relationships. Metaphor to our relationships. Bestie, if you love this episode as much as we did, don't forget to follow, subscribe and also send it to your work, bestie.

Linda Sutton: 39:26

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, ciao.

Jess: 39:30

Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break room, rescuing each other from endless meetings, or just sending other from endless meetings, or just sending that perfectly timed meme. Having a work bestie is like having your own personal hype squad.

Claude: 39:43

So keep lifting each other, laughing through the chaos and, of course, thriving. Until next time, stay positive, stay productive and don't forget to keep supporting each other. Work besties.