Talk it Out

What if the conversation you’re avoiding is the one you actually need?

This month on Work Besties Who Podcast, we’re kicking off our Communication & Transformation theme with a big one: how to talk it out at work.

In this episode, Jess and Claude talk about conflict, feedback, listening, and how to say the thing clearly without making it messy. Because silence is not always peace, and sometimes the conversation we avoid is the one that could help us grow.

We break down why clear communication builds trust, how feedback can be honest without being harsh, and why your work bestie can help you pause before sending that spicy email.

We also introduce the Talk It Out Map, a simple way to prepare for hard conversations by focusing on the facts, feelings, needs, clear language, one good question, and the next step.

This week’s Work Bestie Challenge: pick one conversation you’ve been avoiding and practice saying the thing with care.

Because clear is kind. And clarity is calm.

Your Supportive Work Besties,
 Jess & Claude

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Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband

Transcript

The Conversation You’re Avoiding

Claude F 0:00

What if the conversation you're avoiding is the one you actually need?

Jess K 0:04

Today we're talking about conflict, feedback, listening, and how to say the thing clearly without making it messy. Because silence is not always peace. This month our theme is communication and transformation. And we are starting with the big one: how to talk it out at work. Because clear is kind. By the end of this episode, we'll ask: how can we have an honest, clear, kind conversation that help our relationships grow? Yes. Work besties, always talk it out.

Claude F 0:35

Hi, I'm Claude. And I'm Jess. We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night, and work besties for life.

Jess K 0:43

Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up, laugh through the chaos, and thrive together in every industry. Work besties. This month is communication and transformation, and we're doing it the work bestie way. Which means honest, clear, and kind. Because great communication does not just make work easier, it builds trust, strengthens relationships, and helps us grow in our careers. And it helps not to lose our mind. Let's be honest. Exactly. Because so many workplace issues are really communication issues. A missed expectation, vague deadline, a weird tone in my favorite, feedback that was maybe too soft, too harsh, or something that was just never even said at all. Or listen to that one. The meeting after the meeting. The meeting after the meeting is almost always a sign that something was not said clearly in the actual meeting. Exactly. So today we're starting June with talk it out. We're talking about conflict, feedback, listening, and the conversation we avoid, but probably need to have.

Claude F 2:18

And especially less spiraling.

Jess K 2:21

Always less spiraling. Yeah. All

Why Silence Is Not Peace

Jess K 2:24

right. So great communication is not just talking, it is making sure that the other person understands what you mean, what matters, and what happens next. It is clear, it is kind, it is useful. Straight to the point. Great communication creates clarity. It helps people know where they stand, what's expected, and really how to move forward. It should not be a guessing game. And that is where your work bestie can be so powerful. A great work bestie helps you find the words. They help you think through what you actually want to say before you say it in a meeting, an email, or yes, even those Teams messages.

Claude F 3:07

Because great communication is not being brutally honest. That's the opposite of kind. Talking over people, ugh, the worst. Avoiding the truth, saying fine when it is not fine, that is really weird. And sending a spicy email too fast.

Jess K 3:28

Yeah, that's that's a tricky one. Yeah. Spicy email. Always pause. Always pause.

Claude F 3:34

Think, you know, go around the neighborhood. And then send. Silent is not always peace.

Jess K 3:40

And if you avoid those hard conversations, that does not mean you're bad at communication. It just means you're you're human. Yeah, so nobody wants to make it worse. No. So most people do avoid those hard conversations because they don't want the drama. They don't want to hurt someone's feelings. Or they're afraid they'll just say it wrong. Cry. I mean. Perhaps. Could be real. So yeah, this month we really are trying to find how to be, I wouldn't say perfect communicators, but better communicators. And how to really be brave, to be clear, and as you've been commenting, be kinder in those communications. Yep.

Claude F 4:21

I'm going to say again, brave, clear, kind.

Conflict As A Clarity Tool

Claude F 4:24

So let's talk about three things conflict, feedback, and listening.

Jess K 4:30

During communication, if you really want to transform those work relationships, those are the three areas that we have to continually practice. So think about it this way: a conflict is not meant to be drama, it's about clarity. So you don't want conflict to make it neat seem like something's wrong. You want it to really understand how and what you're trying to put across. In other words, be clear.

Claude F 4:59

Yeah, conflict is not always drama. I mean, there's always going to be conflict. It's normal to have two people having different points of view. That will be the conflict, but you can resolve conflict the right way.

Jess K 5:15

Or the worst, which is again going back to when you don't have the conversation. Oh, you avoid it, you're actually causing drama. Because then what will happen is the other person winds up talking about it with others. They might gossip about it, or even in their head, they might be making assumptions. And that's where you really start to see the difference between those that are trying to understand and be clear. So we have some ideas of some questions to really prompt to yourself to avoid that. In fact, the first one being, what conversation am I avoiding? What am I afraid will happen if I do say something? And what do I actually want from the conversation? Meaning, am I trying to be right or am I trying to make this better? So one idea from the Crucial of Conversations is start with the heart. So before you go into those hard conversations, ask yourself, what do I really want here?

Claude F 6:15

Yeah. And not what do I want to scream?

Jess K 6:19

Because that is not kind. Right. So what do I really want for the relationship, the work, the outcome? And that will totally change the tone, right? Right. Yeah, because I think if you're clear with the outcome, you will automatically, to your point, adjust your tone.

Claude F 6:36

Yeah, and at the same time, it's always very important to like do the work before. Like we said earlier, you know, look at what all those questions you have to prepare when you want to address something.

Jess K 6:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It helps you with the clarity for sure.

Feedback That Helps People Grow

Jess K 6:56

So the next one is feedback. So that's where it's still being clear, but you have care plus the feedback together. So feedback is where a lot of people struggle because they either make it too soft or too sharp.

Claude F 7:11

Yeah. Too soft, nobody gets it because you need someone to translate. Right.

Jess K 7:16

Just feel like someone's like giving you credit. Exactly. It's like, okay, no.

Claude F 7:20

And then too sharp is when then people are going to shut down. I always say you need to be clear, actual, no emotional, no emotions.

Jess K 7:32

Yeah. I mean, I think you still want to show empathy in some sort, but oh yeah. So I think the way I think about it is that going back to that book that I was talking about, but in in there they talk about something called the radical candor, which is the idea of caring personally, but still challenging directly. So in that work bestie language, we might say, tell the truth, but don't forget the person behind the truth you're trying to tell. Of course.

Claude F 7:58

And like we had a podcast earlier, don't be a jerk. But it's true though, you can still be human and say what you think in a kind way without being a jerk.

Jess K 8:10

If you care but never tell the truth, people won't grow, right? I mean, I feel like that's what is so symbiotic of our relationship is we both know that each other's have each other's best interest at heart. We might not always be kind. Me. I try. But we are still trying to help each other.

Claude F 8:30

You're not unkind.

Jess K 8:31

No, I'm not unkind. No, you're not unkind. I always have to think about my messaging though. So I think if you go back to it and you tell that truth without care, people may not hear it. Maybe that's why you don't listen to me.

Claude F 8:43

Because one way the other way.

Jess K 8:46

Um, do you want to share some prompting questions I can help you?

Claude F 8:50

Some prompting question is is my feedback specific?

Jess K 8:54

Clarity, right?

Claude F 8:55

Is it about behavior, not character? Have I explained the impact? And have I made the next step clear?

Jess K 9:05

So an example. Going back on that example that I'd literally just say, instead of saying, hey, Claude, you never listen, which is true, try saying something around. In the last two meetings we had, Claude, I shared a point and we moved past it really quickly. I want to make sure I'm communicating clearly, but I also want to feel like my input is being

Listening Without Reacting Fast

Jess K 9:27

heard. Okay, so the third topic is ironically listening and understanding before reacting.

Claude F 9:35

Oh wow. That that's kind of neat. I react too much. I'm very like listening is not waiting to talk.

Jess K 9:43

I'm not going to deny that. I tend to Right. And I think you don't always do it with any ill intent. So I don't I don't mean it that way, work bestie community. But there are some people like me. No, no. I do think there are some people in meetings. Again, they don't mean it by ill intent. It might not be your work bestie, but somebody that you work with who just is the talker. They're just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. So I think the reason we bring this one up is again, you're gonna have conflict with those people because you don't understand. Why are they not listening? They just kind of talk, talk, talk. What we suggest is think again of some prompting questions. So the first thing I uh do when I hear someone talk, talk, talk, talk is what am I hearing? Why, why do they feel like they have to be the one always talking? And maybe what I need to do is make that more clarifying element of why they're doing it before I react. Because there could be a reason, lack of confidence, or could be they just they themselves don't feel like they're being heard. So, what are those questions that you can ask instead of just leaping to an assumption? The questions. Can you help me understand what felt frustrating? What did you need that you did not get? What would make this work better next time? Can we reset and talk through what happened? Those are good, better than well, actually. Right. Then you feel like you're just kind of being ignored. So the person that helped you say it better ultimately comes down to really ensuring communication is a part of your relationship in a safe way. So this is already embedded in your work bestie ethos, right? So they're the ones that you can practice those real conversations with so that when you do have those interactions with the other people, you do feel more confident.

Claude F 11:34

Yeah. A work bestie will help you really

Use A Work Bestie As Translator

Claude F 11:37

not to send the first ref.

Jess K 11:38

Oh, the the hot off the press email, right? Exactly. Yeah. So usually, at least in my instances, when I write that first email or have that first reaction, it's not the best. Yeah.

Claude F 11:51

Especially when you're angry.

Jess K 11:54

Yeah, I can, I can, I can get angry pretty quick. All right, so here are some things that you can leverage your work bestie to really help calm down those signals, right? So we commented in the beginning we want less spiraling in the world. So you can actually say what you are inferring to your work bestie and let them take the time to say, hmm, I don't know if that's exactly what they did say. Let let's see what actually happened. Walk me through the actual situation.

Claude F 12:25

They help you find also the the real issue. Is this about the deadline, the tone, the missing context? They will help you.

Jess K 12:35

In essence, like, what is it that really triggered you? And so then what your work bestie can do, Claude does this to me all the time, is they can say it more clearly without that emotional element in it. So here's what I think you mean. Let's make it less emotional and more about the actionability.

Claude F 12:54

Correct. There I have also someone at work where they tend to take it the wrong way. And I always say, Well, I don't think the way it sounded didn't sound me or the same, because that you know, the person that is going to kind of translate doesn't have this emotion. Right.

Jess K 13:15

Yeah, because you're not in it, they're in it. Exactly. So you have someone who can take that step back. So another thing is they will tell you what you actually do need to own. So, did you communicate the deadline clearly? Did you assume they understood it? Maybe you waited too long to say something, and that's the real problem.

Claude F 13:35

Correct. They remind you to stay kind also. And direct does not mean damaging. You can be direct and kind. Right.

Jess K 13:44

One is not it's not one or it's one one or the other, right?

Claude F 13:48

And I think also sometimes it's how you say it. A lot of time being direct is being kind. Again, you don't have to try to translate what the other person is saying.

Jess K 13:59

Well, yeah, but I think you have to know the other person's personality to help understand. But I get you. I get you. Like it's different with a work bestie, right? Like you can just say it and whatever, but when you walk into another situation, you just you might want to.

Claude F 14:13

Well, that's where the kind how that's where the kindness comes. Right. Because you need to do be direct with kindness, and then it will be fine.

Jess K 14:22

All right. So that work bestie is not just there to answer those questions, but they actually hype you up. What they're trying to do without even knowing it is they're helping you be a better communicator. And also to be brave and not messy.

Claude F 14:37

So again, going back to clear.

Jess K 14:38

An idea we have is sometimes we text message each other what's going on. So one of the things we're suggesting is for this month, why don't you text your bestie and say, guess what? This month I'm practicing that clear communication. So if I'm spiraling, can you help me get the real issue before I react?

Claude F 14:57

Yes. Or like something like, hey, stop me before I send that crazy email.

Jess K 15:03

Right. So I can always say to Claude, hey, can you read this email first? So here's the tool, the talk it out map.

The Talk It Out Map

Jess K 15:10

This is a simple way to prepare for a hard conversation before you get right into it. Because when emotions are high, we do need something simple or else we won't remember.

Claude F 15:20

Because it has to be simple, right? When you're mad, you do not need a 12-step program.

Jess K 15:28

All right, so ours is not 12 steps. Well, my facial my facial one is, but my her work, bestie one, is not as 12 steps, it's six. And what so for the talk it out map, what we say first is start with the facts. Not the story you built around the facts, but the actual facts. So the deadline moved, and I found out in the meeting. The story that we play in our head, they do not respect. Yeah. So the story may be true, but check the facts first. Exactly. So what we would say first is what am I feeling? Name that feeling before it drives the conversation. So the meeting tells me that deadlines move. I feel frustrated, I feel embarrassed, dismissed, confused, disrespected. Overwhelmed. I do feel that a lot too. Feelings are information. But they're not always the full story. So this is where we move from reaction to request. Um, and so what do I need? Some examples are I need clearer timing, I need context earlier, I need that direct feedback, I need my role clarified, or I need a decision before moving forward. Exactly. Be specific. So, what is that kindest, clear thing I can say? Honing in on kindness again, because we don't want that harshest version, but we also don't want a watered-down version. The kind, clear version could be something as simple as I want to talk through what happened so we can avoid confusion next time.

Claude F 16:57

Or I may be missing context, but I just want you to clarify expectation.

Jess K 17:03

I want to give feedback in a way that's useful, not personal. Again, clear is kind.

Claude F 17:09

I need to put on tattoo in my head.

Jess K 17:11

Clear is kind, everyone. Because I like you're the kinder one. So the next thing is what's that question I can ask? You want to keep the conversation open instead of turning it into a speech.

Claude F 17:24

Oh, yeah, nobody wants a speech.

Jess K 17:25

I love speeches. All right. How did you see it? What would have helped on your end? What should we do differently next time? And is there a context I'm missing? So ask before assuming. Yeah. So the next step, this is number six. So the last one is a good conversation should end with clarity. Next time, we will align on timing by Friday. All right. Or I do this a lot. Also, in a recap after the meeting. Love those.

Claude F 17:58

CYA for me. And your flag risk.

Jess K 18:02

Earlier. Or my favorite role. Reconnect tomorrow once we both have had time to think. Because it's okay not to have the answer immediately, but you want to be clear there is going to be one. Correct. No next step, no real clarity. Oh, yeah, totally. All right. So the talk it out map is facts, feelings, needs, clear language, and one good question moving you to the next step. Simple, useful, less messy. So, in addition to kindness and clarity, one of our additional social themes, because goodness forbid we only stick to two, is what I wish

What I Wish I Said Scripts

Jess K 18:40

I said. Oh God, that's a big one. I love that one. This is the tape. I always think about play in our head at night as we're about to go. Oh, I was gonna say we're about to go to sleep. I know from here at three o'clock. And then I'm just you're still thinking about it. I know. So we always feel like the perfect line, or you think about it way, way after the meeting has occurred. So here's something to think about. Here's some examples of where this may occur. Someone interrupts you in a meeting, and what you may think excuse you, uh what the hef?

Claude F 19:14

That would be me, and what can you say instead?

Jess K 19:17

I would say, I want to finish that thought, and then I'd love to hear your build. So you're letting them know, hey, I'm still talking, I'm talking.

Claude F 19:26

Right. So it's strong, but still nice because you're going to say, I'm going to hear you after. Right. Even if you don't care. You have to be kind. Kind and clear. The second example, the feedback is way too vague. So what you might think, what does that even mean? But what you could say is what can you say? Can you share one specific example so I can better understand what to adjust? Well, again, there is clear there.

Jess K 19:57

I stop it's specific and helpful, yeah. Okay, so example three, you disagree but still want to stay respectful. So what you might think. No, no, no. Like, what's wrong with you? That's what we that's in your head, in your head, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with him? But what you can actually say, I see the point you're making. I'm looking at it differently, and here's why.

Claude F 20:33

So one thing also I like to do actually, yeah. It's a little trick. I know the answer. What they say is totally silly. So I'm going to ask the question that I know the answer for them to kind of play it in their head. Play in their head, and then they see they're being silly.

Jess K 20:49

But if it doesn't work though, you're still keeping it calm. So it's I like it though. All right. So it's being sneaky.

Claude F 20:56

It's not sneaky. It's fine.

Jess K 20:59

It's I don't think so because what you're trying to do is you're giving them the bandwidth on their own instead of you saying, hey, you realize that's silly.

Claude F 21:07

Yeah.

Jess K 21:07

Right?

Claude F 21:08

So, all right. Let's say someone misses a deadline. What you might think, I'm not again.

Jess K 21:15

What should you say? All right. I want to align on timing because this delay impacts the next steps. So, what do you need in order to hit the date that we did agree to? Again, clear, strong, but not mean. Right. You do need to give feedback though. So, okay. So here's example number five. You need to give feedback to a work bestie. What you might think. I don't want to hurt her feelings or his feelings. All right, but what we could actually say is I care about you. So I want to be honest. I noticed something that may be getting in your way. Are you open to talking about it?

Claude F 21:53

That is kind because again, it shows that you think about them, about their well being, and You're there to help. Yeah.

Jess K 22:02

And that is more real and raw, right? Because like you would be okay with me being a little bit more raw, but I sometimes I need the gentle touch to be like, do you want to talk about it? Because I can tell you're not in the mood. Again, that is kind. It is kind. So I think the way we would say it is this at least gives that person permission and like creates that safety zone, right? Because not all of us are always as willing to have those emotional conversations. All right. So we're really excited this month because we have a lot of amazing guests that are upcoming that continue to build on this idea of communication. Because honestly, it's not just a soft skill, it's a lifelong career skill. Oh my God.

Claude F 22:44

It's not only career, but it's also personal. Yeah. It is leadership skill. I mean, communication is the most important.

Jess K 22:52

It does. It is totally the most important. And we'll talk about toxic communication patterns, some boundaries, team collaboration, and creative ways to help people get aligned and how the way we communicate can either keep us stuck or really help us grow. So a big mom. Totally. It is a big one. And the goal again is not to be a perfect communicator. The goal is to get more honest, more clear, more kind, more willing to have those conversations that matter and definitely not avoiding them.

Claude F 23:26

Yeah, even if it's gets awkward.

Jess K 23:30

Especially when it gets awkward. All right. So this month we do have a couple guests coming up. We are gonna review some of these same themes that we had in here around conflict feedback and listening. Um, and again, we have that whole social focus on what I wish I had said, feedback frameworks, and communication fails that turned into lessons. So the Work Best Challenge is to practice being clear, having kind conversations each week.

Claude F 24:02

So again, month of June is clarity, honesty, listening, and both and kind and being

June Challenge Say It With Care

Claude F 24:10

kind.

Jess K 24:10

So communication that transforms how we work and how we support each other. Okay, so this week we're launching our June challenge that say the thing with care. So just say it, but say it kindly. It doesn't have to be a huge conversation. You can start small and maybe leverage your work, bestie, to really enforce how to not just be clear, but to be kind. Exactly. But for example, can I give you feedback on how that landed? Oh yeah. Or maybe something like, can we talk through what happens so we're more aligned next time? Yeah, small is good. Yeah. Small's how we practice. All right, so the goal is not to create drama. So clarity is calm. Yeah, I love that. So share this challenge with your work bestie and ask what is that one conversation we can handle with more clarity and how can I help you?

Claude F 25:09

Yeah. Again, accountability besties.

Jess K 25:12

That's supports besties. That's part of a work bestie. All right. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Please like and subscribe and share us with your friends. Um we look forward to talking soon. Till then, keep supporting each other. Bye! Remember, whether you're swapping snacks in the break room, rescuing each other from endless meetings, or just sending that perfectly timed meme. Having a work bestie is like having your own personal hype squad.

Claude F 25:44

So keep lifting each other up, laughing through the chaos, and of course, thriving. Until next time, stay positive, stay productive, and don't forget to keep supporting each other.

Jess K 25:57

Work besties!