Be a Better Ally: Simple Steps to Support Your Team

What does it really mean to be an ally at work? And how can we build cultures where everyone feels seen, supported, and empowered?

In this episode of Work Besties Who Podcast, Jess & Claude sit down with Dr. Victoria Mattingly, a behavioral scientist, author, and inclusion strategist who helps organizations turn DEI from theory into daily practice.

Together, they unpack what true allyship looks like — not as a buzzword, but as an everyday commitment. From recognizing privilege to having brave conversations about equity, Dr. Mattingly breaks down how small, intentional actions can shift entire workplace cultures.

She also shares why work besties play a vital role in inclusion — creating safe spaces, amplifying each other’s voices, and modeling what real allyship looks like in action.

💡 What You’ll Learn:

• How allyship drives inclusion, diversity, and equity in the workplace
• The behavioral science behind why inclusion feels hard — and how to make it easier
• Simple, everyday actions that make a real difference
• Why uncomfortable conversations are essential for growth
• How leaders can embed DEI into decision-making and culture
• The powerful link between allyship, mental health, and belonging
• Why your work bestie might just be your greatest ally

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Inclusion is a choice made in every interaction.
• Allyship is a practice — not a one-time act.
• DEI is good for people and good for business.
• Work besties help create the psychological safety needed for true inclusion.

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Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband

Chapters

• 0:00 Inclusion Is A Daily Choice
• 0:56 Dr. V’s Path To Allyship
• 3:26 Privilege, Lived Allies, And Purpose
• 5:02 Why Inclusion Is Easier Than Equity
• 6:34 DEI Language Shift And Backlash
• 10:33 The Business Case For Inclusion
• 12:23 Work Besties As An Inclusion Engine
• 13:14 What Actually Reduces Bias: Exposure
• 15:25 Cross-Difference Mentorship In Practice
• 16:39 Winning Over Skeptical Leaders
• 18:35 Two-Sided Allyship: Dr. V’s Book
• 22:35 Inclusive Habits For Mid-Level Managers
• 26:12 Besties, Boundaries, And Trust At Work
• 28:58 Allyship In The Moments That Matter

Transcript

Jess: 0:00

Inclusion isn't a checklist. It's a choice. You make every meeting, every moment, every Monday morning. Today we're joined by Dr. Victoria Mattingley, aka Dr. B, a behavioral scientist who's helped leaders ditch performative alley ship for real measurable impact. And stay to the end, because the question we're asking is one you'll all want to hear. What does it actually look like to be an ally in the moments that matter most?

Claude: 0:30

Hi, I'm Claude. And I'm Jess. We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night, and work besties for life.

Jess: 0:38

Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up, laugh through the chaos, and thrive together in every industry. Work besties! Welcome. We're so excited to have you.

Dr.V: 0:53

Thanks so much. I'm really happy to be here.

Jess: 0:56

Dr. V. How do you came to be so focused on Allieship?

Dr.V: 1:01

I am an organizational psychologist. And when I started my PhD program, I was really focused on learning and development and the science of training and particularly like emotional intelligence. You know, how can we help people be better leaders, be more empathetic, be better communicators? It wasn't until towards the end of my academic training that I was interning at a leadership development company, and they were just getting started with their women in leadership practice. So, like programming and assessments and things really focused around how do we solve the gender gap and leadership. And I got really excited, really involved. I got to work with the CEO because it was her passion project. And I pitched to them because if you look at most organizational hierarchies, the higher up you go, the less and less women there are. So if we don't get men actively involved in these efforts, we're never gonna make the type of progress. So the one is in all the positions of power, you know, and like and they've been sort of villainized as part of the problem. But what if we instead told them what they could do as part of the solution? And so I pitched that as my dissertation. And so they went in for it, and it's still a commercial product, they sell to this day. So I built this male executive training program to help men be better allies to advance women and leadership in the workplace. So I got to really dig into what are the behaviors and the knowledge and the attitudes that men need to be to be allies. And since then I've definitely you know branched out far beyond gender. Allyship is truly an intersectional approach to inclusion and diversity and all those good things. That's how I got started on this journey. Um, I I didn't know I was gonna go that direction, but I got to really merge my training in learning and development with allyship and inclusive behaviors, and that's where I've lived ever since. And that was almost 10 years ago now, which is wild.

Jess: 2:55

Definitely opens up a lot of communication and conversations that we have with work besties because work besties can be across different genders and different ages and everything. We do have uh a lot more women asking us questions, and one of the areas that they were most interested in is how do they become leaders and move up in the ranks because every organization has opportunities to really develop that further. So, knowing your um your background and some of the experiences that you have, how has this overall shaped your mission?

Dr.V: 3:26

Well, I've I've benefited from allies in a lot of ways. You know, I am a first-generation college student, you know, I needed allies to even get into college, you know, to figure out how to live on my own. Uh, I had allies when I went to my university, you know, people that gave me research opportunities and things that made me, you know, set up for grad school. I had allies that helped me through the grad school process. Um, I struggle with mental illness, and I've had so many mental health allies that have been there for me. Um, parenthood allies, like whenever I was the first woman to have my to have a child in my graduate program, and there was no parental leave or maternal leave policy, there was no precedent for it. And and I had so many allies. They got me a research assistantship instead of a teaching assistantship, so I could leave when he came and I couldn't do that if I was teaching a class, right? So I had I've had so many allies in my life that have helped me get to where I am, and I also see the value I can bring as someone who wants to be an ally as well, and and think about the individuals and groups that I can serve, people who are different than me, so I can leverage that. I'm a straight white woman with a degree and marriage, like I have all these privileges. I have all these privileges, so why not try to use those for good rather than just sitting on my pile of privileges and looking down at others?

Jess: 4:51

You're that mentality of payout forward for sure.

Dr.V: 4:54

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Jess: 4:57

Yes, you are a white woman with some privilege, um, but you also are part of different inclusion groups, right? Being women is still one of them. So one of the things that we've been um hearing from those that are in this area of expertise is people still feel uncomfortable talking about inclusion.

Dr.V: 5:17

I think inclusion is one of the topics people are least uncomfortable talking about because we can all agree. You know, we can all agree we want to be treated in such a way that makes us feel valued, respected, seen, and heard. You know, like we want to feel like we belong and, you know, and our authentic selves belong. We don't have to shape ourselves into a certain form to fit in, you know. I think people struggle talking about diversity, especially people in majority privileged groups don't like having their identity pointed out. There isn't a white culture. Male culture just is culture. That's why we have those affinity groups, and why you don't see a white affinity group or something, an employee resource group. I think people are uncomfortable and we don't have the skills. Like, this is like a skill set, it's like cultural competence, having a diversity perspective and awareness. This is a skill set that no one's being taught. And we've been convinced to believe that we just like fit into these groups, and there's good groups, and there's bad groups, and it's one or the other, and it's a zero-sum game. And that's just not the truth. If we work together, we can get so much more accomplished than we ever could divided. So I think diversity is hard for people, equity is really hard for people. That's really hard. There's actually a lot happening right now. It's been going on for about a year or two in the Society for Human Resource Management, and they've like wiped DEI out of all of their language, their certifications, their conferences. They have another acronym for it, but like they're even like watering that down a lot more. And they they definitely don't talk about equity because equity is calling out things are already not balanced, they're not fair as they presently stand. People don't want to admit that. They want to people want to think we've had a black president, like women, women work and we are making good money and like everything's fixed, you know, but it's not fixed. You have to acknowledge that it's not it's not right, you know, there's an imbalance, and you do something to fix the imbalance, which inherently doesn't benefit the current group that's being benefited, and people get angry, people get angry. So I think inclusion is easier to talk about, diversity harder, and equity is just like a dialogue explosion.

Claude: 7:32

How do you put it back into the map? Because there's still a lot of work to be done. At the end of the day, it's the wording. How can we get away from talking equity but still doing the work that is needed to be done?

Dr.V: 7:47

That's exactly what's happening right now. You know, there were a lot of people doing DEI work over the last five, six years, and those people didn't just disappear, their roles did and the titles did, but going into people operations, HR, um, leadership, being an HRBP, a HR business partner, you know, you could be doing lots of what is DEI work just by doing your job. But you're making sure that just as many women are being interviewed as men. You know, you're asking those types of questions and you're in a position to do something about it. You know, I I've heard anecdotes, people who were in formal DEI roles are now in like HRBP roles, and they're like, we do more DEI work now than we ever did in the DEI role. And the DEI role was like performative, you know, like we're just gonna hire this person and say, Yep, we've we solved DEI because we hired this person. It's like that's not how it works.

Claude: 8:44

I think that's where the issue is as well, right? Where there's also this misconception about what's really DEI is I think that there's misconception of what really is DE equity and inclusion.

Dr.V: 8:59

I have rephrased it for myself. I call myself a workplace inclusion expert, or I'll say workplace inclusion and allyship. You know, um, I I don't really use DEI anymore. And I had a very different stance on that, like six months, nine months ago. I was very much like, no, this is our field. No one's gonna tell lawyers or doctors to like change the name of their field. This is what I've been doing for almost a decade. I know the importance of language. You need to be able to call something something so people know what it is, right? We can't keep changing the name. But it's become even just the more the acronym than the actual three words, it's become so villainized. It's become a scapegoat. And I've had people call me racist and sexist. It's flipped on its head. People are really angry and they feel left out and they feel like DEI means giving people from underrepresented groups a leg up. And in actuality, it's just trying to level the playing field. Like that's it. And what I really wish I could get, the point I really wish could get across is like this is gonna benefit you if and when that that tilts. I always say I'll be the first one on the front lines the day there's far more women in leadership roles than men, because it should be close to 50-50. Should be, you know, that that's what makes the world a good place, having that diversity of gender, you know, that that's important. I'm not saying women should take over. I'm just saying we should get to parry.

Jess: 10:25

I heard you, um, Dr. V say in a it was either a previous tech talk or podcast, we don't get caught up in the words because they've changed. DEI wasn't just the right thing to do, it's the smart thing. What exactly did you mean by that?

Dr.V: 10:39

Yeah, there's a lot of data out there that show the positive business impact that DEI has on the bottom line. So even thinking from a talent standpoint, being able to retain talent, who's getting people are getting value from being involved in DEI efforts or employee resource group or having that part of themselves seen and taken care of. People are gonna stay around longer, you're gonna recruit top talent, you know, you're gonna keep them. Also, there's a lot of research that shows that diversity is really beneficial to innovation. So if you're in a field where you're you need to be innovative and creating new things and thinking outside the box, that's how we think outside the box, being in a room of people who aren't like us. Honestly, there's also there's so much untapped talent in certain demographic groups. I'm thinking particularly women of color, looking at the education rates, also thinking about when you're from multiple disadvantaged groups, what you've had to do to overcome all those challenges and barriers and still get to where you are in your career. People should be sought out for their diversity and it's being held against them. Attraction to an organization, shareholders care, stakeholders care, customers care. Look what happened with uh with Target. Yeah, Target like really hurt from getting rid of their DEI stuff. People want to spend their money that with or in with companies that align with their values. DEI done right is a good way of demonstrating, hey, we care about people for who they are at this organization, and that just is good for business.

Jess: 12:13

It's interesting to me, like we're very supportive of DEI and what that means in in all walks of life, every organization. For us, it's very similar to what we're trying to put forth too in the workforce around work besties. Similar to your challenges, there are some companies that still are very against having work besties or or providing support for that to occur. And similar to the stats that you're stating, we find in the work besties who are across different ages, different genders, different generations, we find that they actually bring more productivity, more retention. So similar stats that you're stating, the work bestie element provides too. So when you think about corporate culture and organizations, having someone, whether they're that's their sole focus or it's integrated, which I feel like might even be the bigger opportunity, should be layered across every position versus just a defined position. What's your thoughts on that? Or do you feel there needs to be a defined position for it?

Dr.V: 13:14

So the beauty of allyship and my own like agenda with it is I did I did some research on what actually reduces our unconscious bias. And it's not unconscious bias training. Unconscious bias training is great for us to be aware and how to not let our biases like it impact our behaviors or our decision making, right? But it doesn't actually reduce the bias that you have towards whatever group you have. The one strategy that's been found to actually reduce our biases, it's called exposure. It's surely hanging out, having a interaction, a regular interaction, or building a relationship with someone who is different than you, who belongs to that group. So if I have a bias against women leaders, I'm gonna hang out with a bunch of women leaders or make a really good relationship with one, right? And learn like, well, this person doesn't do this or that. It starts chiseling away at that because it's unconscious. And we we can't change our unconscious, it has to be done through rewiring our brain and to have an example and a model of someone who's not fitting in that stereotype starts chiseling that away. So that's my like agenda with allyship. I'm all about people being mentors and sponsors and advocates and cheerleaders and coaches and guys. But it's not an ally if that person is the same as you. It's not an ally if you're not actively working across some difference. Because the thing about allyship, you have to have that power, that privilege, that status to be able to lend that to the person. So if you belong to all the same groups, there's not that opportunity to realign things that an ally and a partner can do. So I think that's that's really an important distinction with allyship, what makes it special compared to just being a good human to someone else.

Jess: 15:06

Yeah. I feel like you've just flipped the script on recommendations or ideas for work besties as you are thinking about having a mentor. Because I think we all gravitate to somebody we either have some type of connection or already know, but in in the way to really push yourself would be to find somebody completely out of your scope.

Dr.V: 15:26

I I'm a member. Yeah, I'm a member of an organization called Blacks in I.O. Psychology, Industrial Organizational Psychology. And I joined them right around like 2020, 2021, um, when everything was happening. Because I wanted to do something involved in a way that's like meaningful and purposeful, and I'm very involved in the IO psychology community. But the reason I joined is they had an ally membership, which was amazing because I didn't have to second guess, do I belong here? Should I be here? I don't want to overstep my boundaries. Like, and so the fact I'm an ally member has been just so wonderful. But I bring it up because I just did their mentorship program and I had this amazing mentee, and we're still gonna like keep in touch, like she's on the market right now. I wish I could do an experiment to see like, was it an even more effective mentoring relationship? Because we are different, you know. She is a black woman, I am not. You know, like was there something that about that that made it even more made it even better? Like, I I don't know, but I don't have a comparison, so I couldn't assess that.

Jess: 16:32

With any mentor mentee relationship, you get out of it is what you give to, right? So I'm sure if you feel it, then probably it's true.

Claude: 16:39

I had a question: how do we win over leaders who see DI as optics and not a strategy?

Dr.V: 16:46

One thing that came out of this DEI backlash that we've experienced over the last year or so is that now it truly is a competitive advantage. Something can't be a competitive advantage if everyone's doing it. And for a while everyone was doing it, right? So now it's more about do you want this competitive advantage or not? Like you have a finite number of marbles, where are you gonna put your marbles? And if they could see that that would be a good ROI, a good benefit. And I truly believe leaders have to have some sort of values and alignment with DEI. That's not something you can teach or change, maybe over time, or maybe through like um a pivotal moment, you know, that happened. But I would argue that the ones that you just can't convince, that's just that's just a loss for them. Whenever my business was at its height, our marketing strategy was very much inbound marketing. So just put as much content out there as possible. Let's let's write the book, like, and then people came to us because that's the litmus test. Because DEI work is so hard, and you have to be so committed to it, get it to work. I wanted them to seek us out so I knew they were committed enough to even do that, you know. Like I never hard sell DEI. Um, I think the people who are inclined to have that values alignment and see it as a competitive advantage. I don't think sharing data broadly or research broadly is helpful because people want to know, especially leaders, well, what how would it play out here? And so, whatever you can do to try to show data or a case study or a story about how it could play out in that organization, I think that would be more compelling than just like, oh, here's all this research because they just don't care. They don't care. Dr.

Jess: 18:31

Vino you've written a book. Do you want to share some details about the book?

Dr.V: 18:35

Uh, my second book came out this year. It's called Act Like an Ally, Work with an Ally. It was actually supposed to be my first book. Um, but when me and my bit my then business partner decided to write a book, it was 2021. And at that moment, allyship didn't feel appropriate. Allyship is a more like later stage DEI strategy. You have to have the foundational pieces in place for allyship to work. And in that moment, there are all these new DEI functions and leaders and roles just like popping up all over the place. And, you know, as an organizational psychologist, I was like, what can we do as biopsychologists to contribute to the space right now and like establish ourselves as credible thought leaders and experts, you know, in this world? The answer was data-driven DEI. If we're gonna build a DEI function or employee resource group, how do we decide which resource groups to start first? Well, take a survey, see who raises their hand, see what the need is, right? Like what groups are you dealing with? Who's even in your organization? Do you even know the answer to that? The book got had great reception. We really was like a resource that people use, not just even in organizations, but in the classroom as well, which was like an unexpected surprise. A lot of uh professors picked it up. It's like a secondary text, you know. Um, so that was our first book, and in the preface, it says, this was not supposed to be our first book. Our first book would be on allyship, right? So this is that book. It's a continuation of my dissertation work that I mentioned earlier. But as I said, taking a form more intersectional take on allyship. I try to have stories from as many different identity groups as possible throughout the book. The thing that always bothered me with the training that I did for my dissertation was that I gave these male executives all these tools and ideas and you know, prompts to like be better allies to women in the workplace. But imagine you're Susan and you've been Joe's executive assistant for 10 years. And Joe comes in one day and goes, Susan, I'm ready to help you grow your career. I want to be your mentor, your sponsor, and your cheerleader. It'll be so great. And like Susan's like blindsided from. I worked here for 10 years, Joe. Where is this coming from? So this book is for Susan. It's for the other side of allyship. So it's for both sides. The act like an ally side, that book is out there. There's lots of great books on how to be a good ally. But it I would have done a disservice if I didn't include that side of the story. But the other book, when you literally flip it over, is work with an ally. And that's for what I call the partner, the recipient of allyship, the person who benefits from allyship. Because if allyship truly is a two-sided relationship, both parties need to know what to do to make the most out of that relationship. And I I remember one of my allies years ago said to me once, he's like, you know, the only reason I invest all this time in you is because you actually go do something with it. I get to see what you do with it. You're actually going places, and and that always stuck with me. You know, what can what else can I do to be a good partner in allyship? And how can I help others do the same?

Claude: 21:46

That's incredible. I love this um idea of the book of having two books. One is about being an ally, and like the other one is being the recipient. It's really, really different, and you can see like both ways.

Dr.V: 21:59

I like how it's a real visceral experience.

Claude: 22:03

Right.

Dr.V: 22:03

And I reference the book. So in the partner book, I'll say, Hey, I'm telling allies on page A42 to be courageous. So give them something courageous to do. And I want them to like flip the book over and be like, what's she saying to allies on that page? And then you're like flipping it back and forth. And then when you get to the middle, it says they just might end up being an ally to you, and you flip it over, you just might end up being an ally to them because the middle is actually the end of both books, but it gives you that incentive to like, oh, maybe I should read the other book as well.

Jess: 22:37

It's almost a little bit like choose your own adventure, but you want to do it. It really is.

Dr.V: 22:41

Okay, it's a little kitschy, but I think it really demonstrates the core principle of the book is you know, we need to do this work together, we need to know what's ex what we need to bring to the table. We can't do this work alone, and we need to know both sides of the story to make it happen.

Jess: 22:58

But your take on it, which is so fascinating, is the fact that you're showing both sides of the equation. So both of them understand what the role is of the opposite. So when they're coming at it, they can think more holistically versus just here's what I'm bringing to the table.

Dr.V: 23:13

It's exactly why I made it two books in one. You know, it really brings that point home because I could have easily just had two separate books and just launched them at the same time, you know, and like encourage people to buy both copies, but it would lose that that knowledge and awareness of you know the other person. And chances are you're gonna be in that role. Like I think about my former business partner, you know, she's a black woman. So people look at us and think, but Dr. B is the ally because she's the white woman, and which is true when I can be, but she's been my motherhood ally, she was my grievance ally when my father passed away, she was my cancer ally when I had cancer, she's my mental health ally, she's been my ally in so many other capacities. Um, and I think we work together so well is because we know how to play both of those roles as well as we can.

Jess: 24:05

You could be an ally for anything. I think there are so many things we're all facing and challenged with, and having somebody support you, it's critical. And it's not something any of us as humans are good about asking. The part that I love about this book is even if you are an ally for somebody else, you don't always recognize when somebody needs an ally. So reading the reverse would help with that too. I don't have any questions about your first book just because I'm a data-driven girly. Um, for those who haven't read that book, please do. It's called Inclusivity. One thing that came to mind for me when I was thinking about it from the work bestie perspective is how can people at the mid-level help with these um inclusivity elements that you were sharing?

Dr.V: 24:51

Yeah, so I think it goes back to the definition of inclusion, which are the behaviors that make others feel valued, respected, seen, and heard. And the tricky thing about inclusion is that that's gonna vary. What makes Claude feel included that could look very different from Jess could look very different from me, right? So really taking the time to learn about your particularly your direct reports, you know, you have that power over, you know, and the allyship really gets at that power piece. Um, and learning what does ensure people's voices feel heard, and how do I make sure people can show up as the person they want to be, and and they feel like I value their work and I respect them as a human. And it takes that extra step to you know really get to know each person, and it doesn't have to be a huge thing either. It could be very simple in a quarterly meeting or in the first meeting. How do you like to be recognized? What does motivate you? What's your preferred communication style? Emails, meetings, little things, but they all add up. Um, I think we get hung up that we think inclusion is always this huge gesture, and sometimes it is, but a lot of times it's actually just small things that we can do to make someone feel seen or appreciated on the other side.

Claude: 26:05

What shouldn't a manager do anyway? No matter like being trying to understand your yeah, understanding your employees, how they like to be recognized, and because we all know, like whoever did some manager training, people they like something different from the others. I think a good manager in general has to learn that and they have to be present for everybody.

Dr.V: 26:33

I mean, I've I've said this before, but good leadership is inclusive leadership. You know, it's not it's not new. The the one lens to put on top of just being a good leader is the diversity piece. And that goes back to what we're talking about earlier, and I think that's the part that people are most squeamish with, but like a truly inclusive leader acknowledges that the differences on my team make my team stronger, and I need to make sure that we continue having that diversity moving forward. It's acknowledging that things aren't fair and equal, and it's our role as leaders to try to fix that however we can. Because social media and copywriting and marketing, and I needed someone to help me do that for Mattingley Solutions, my company, and she just jumped right in, and it was a really great experience. And it's ironic. My first business partner was a good friend, like a 25-year friendship, very good friend, and that did not turn out well. Did not. Some people were like, You are just out of this world for working with a friend again after you got so burned the first time. And I believe I got burned because he sucked. It wasn't, it wasn't because you know, the friendship or whatever. Nikki's not like that, she's my bestie. So we worked together, I want to say, for about a year and a half. Um, I've had to like downsize, so she we're not working together right now. But she actually got business from a friend of mine because my my friend really liked what she did for my company, and now she's doing it for her company as well. So it's great to like see her.

Jess: 28:09

You want an eye for her. It sounds like it strengthened your relationship.

Dr.V: 28:13

Oh, yes, absolutely. Um, and we still talk almost every day. She we both work from home, and I'll I'll take my daily walk and I'll give her a call. I I I I know I'm not done working in like corporate type of environments yet, and I am excited if and when I get that next job uh to have a work bestie. And yeah, yeah, for sure.

Claude: 28:37

It makes a whole difference.

Dr.V: 28:39

It really does. You just like shout on Slack, or you go grab lunch, or you dish or you complain, or whatever. It's so important to have emotional outlet, social outlet.

Jess: 28:50

Yeah, yeah. It's that one person that you can go to and say anything and not have to worry about the filter. Dr. V, how can people find your work? Whether it's your books, your courses, your coaching, or even some of the speeches that I've seen of yours that are amazing.

Dr.V: 29:03

Check out my website, MattingleSolutions.com. Mattingleafsolutions.com slash allyship has all the info about the book, how you can order it, resources, and also I'm also really engaged on LinkedIn. So it's just Victoria Mattingly on LinkedIn. Um, feel free to connect and send me a note. And um, yeah, I just I love meeting new people and I love getting the word out about the book. I truly believe allyship could be the next iteration of DEI. Like DEI as we knew it four or five years ago, is is no longer. No, but it's good business, it's good leadership to be inclusive, to have allies, right? And so this work's gonna continue. It needs to involve everyone. And I don't think that was done right the first time, quite honestly. And everyone has a role to play, whatever identity you sit in. Um, and I think allyship could really be that that next iteration of DEI.

Jess: 30:00

What one last question we wanted to ask you. What does it actually look like to be an ally in the moments that matter most?

Dr.V: 30:08

I want to clarify that like moments that matter most don't necessarily need to be big moments or dangerous moments or risky moments, right? Like, although it's very important to stand up for others if you see discrimination or racism or sexism happening, like absolutely, but I think allyship is more likely to happen in these subtle interactions we could have with others. And so I think that's really how one shows up day to day as an ally is recognizing what privileges do I hold at this moment, and how can I reach across difference to bring someone else along by leveraging that, you know? So you have to first identify what privileges you hold, and that's an uncomfortable exercise in and of itself, right? So that's self-necessary self-work. But once you identify and own it and start flipping the script of like, this is not something I should be ashamed of. This is something that I can use to help others and make the world a better place. And then just being aware and recognizing when those opportunities present themselves, and then do whatever it is. And sometimes you'll get it wrong, and that's fine too. You know, at least you tried at the end of the day, it's the best we can do. So that's my answer to the question. Awesome.

Jess: 31:26

Thank you so much. You bring such like brevity to this topic. I feel like some of the people we've had on our podcast, they've been very fascinating. And I feel like you're switching DEI to allyship is like such a nice dimension. Sometimes the topic's heavy, and I think your examples are like light and bright and all of them and relatable, but this is definitely it feels more authentic to the work bestie community. Thank you.

Claude: 31:51

And I like what's always like what you say, like understanding your white privilege and taking that as an opportunity to give it to others, and I think that's a great way of looking at it as well.

Dr.V: 32:03

I'm trying to get out there, so thanks for amplifying my message. I appreciate you both.

Jess: 32:07

Dr. V, you've brought such amazing data, um, compassion, heart, and really helped drive this conversation around allyship. Allyship's not about perfection, it's practice and showing up. So appreciate that. So if this episode's resonated with you guys in the work bestie community, please share it with your team, your workplace, your boss if they they need some support, a bestie leader, any one of us out there. And definitely remember that making inclusion a verb in your workplace isn't just a buzzword.

Claude: 32:40

Yep. And until next time, don't forget to subscribe, like, and forward also the podcast to your besties. Until next week, until next time, have a good week. Bye.

Jess: 32:54

Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break room, rescuing each other from endless meetings, or just sending that perfectly timed meme. Having a work bestie is like having your own personal hype squad.

Claude: 33:07

So keep lifting each other up, laughing through the chaos, and of course, thriving. Until next time, stay positive, stay productive, and don't forget to keep supporting each other. Work besties!